What's the most overrated handgun in your opinion?

[The Verminator]

Remember that you said “articles”, not a former soldier on YouTube....

Now if you watched the video you should know that he is a former Marine and now serving in the Army in a unit that has experience with the SIG (and I should say PROBLEMS with the SIG).

I wouldn't expect one who has seen that many SIG problems to be unbiased.

So he seems a reliable source and he does have over 500,000 subscribers.

Somebody sure thinks he knows what he's talking about.

So don't see why you choose to attack him from your less experienced position.

 

[JohnKSa]

I don't care what weapons system you choose, you will be able to find someone who is or was in the military who is willing to criticize it.

I'm certainly not saying that those criticisms should be dismissed out of hand, but they do need to be taken in perspective.

There is/was a lot of criticism from military personnel of the M16/M4 system and yet it has been the issue service rifle for over half a century.

 

[TunnelRat]

Now if you watched the video you should know that he is a former Marine and now serving in the Army in a unit that has experience with the SIG (and I should say PROBLEMS with the SIG).

So he seems a reliable source and he does have over 500,000 subscribers.

Somebody sure thinks he knows what he's talking about.

So don't see why you choose to attack him from your less experienced position.

I’m sorry I got his service record wrong, but I did watch the whole video (hence those quotes I provided). He doesn’t go through his whole service record in the video.

A person having 500,000 subscribers does not make a person right, and it certainly doesn’t mean a person is unbiased. It means they’re popular. I don’t see how anything I have said is me “attacking” him.

He does have firsthand experience. But nothing in that video is him stating that the MHS contract overemphasized modularity, which is the actual discussion you and I were having. He does state the caliber conversion kits won’t likely be used, but does that mean that modularity in itself was wrong? His accounts are an example of the Glock perhaps being more reliable, if his same unit had Glocks issued to them and could compare. He also notes his own personally bought M18 has been fine.

 

[The Verminator]

Sure, it does. Now explain to us how asking for forum member's opinions about what they feel is the most overrated handgun, with no qualifiers, no filters, no limitations or restrictions, and finding more people said "Glock" than any other single name, is, in ANY WAY, biased??

Sure.

Everybody hates a winner.

Glock dominates the handgun market.

This is a forum of gun owners and many have a favorite pistol that has thus been surpassed by the Glock Perfection.

They are naturally disgruntled.

I don't blame them, but they can't be called unbiased. Some even seem a bit butt-hurt and flustered........perhaps even eager to trash the winner.

So some fun-filled banter ensues. It only hurts if taken to heart.

 

[The Verminator]

I’m sorry I got his service record wrong, but I did watch the whole video (hence those quotes I provided). He doesn’t go through his whole service record in the video.

A person having 500,000 subscribers does not make a person right, and it certainly doesn’t mean a person is unbiased. It means they’re popular, and it might also indicate they have a penchant for stirring things up and drawing attention.

He does have firsthand experience. But nothing in that video is him stating that the MHS contract overemphasized modularity, which is the actual discussion you and I were having. He does state the caliber conversion kits won’t likely be used, but does that mean that modularity in itself was wrong? His accounts are an example of the Glock perhaps being more reliable, if his same unit had Glocks issued to them and could compare. He also notes his own personally bought M18 has been fine.

My theory that some higher ups were idiotically obsessed with modularity and made sure the pistol with the most modularity won........is just a theory of mine--but it's based on being retired military and having seen such things happen.

And this soldier showed us that, on the ground, modularity is not an important issue........to him, not even relevant.

What bothers him is the trouble they have with the SIG and he maintains that either the Beretta or the Glock would have worked out better.

I agree and I think it's important input on the discussion.

As I have said before, time will tell.

Giving our troops an inferior weapon because it came cheap is insane.

 

[TunnelRat]

My theory that some higher ups were idiotically obsessed with modularity and made sure the pistol with the most modularity won........is just a theory of mine--but it's based on being retired military and having seen such things happen.

And this soldier showed us that, on the ground, modularity is not an important issue........to him, not even relevant.

What bothers him is the trouble they have with the SIG and he maintains that either the Beretta or the Glock would have worked out better.

I agree and I think it's important input on the discussion.

As I have said before, time will tell.

Giving our troops an inferior weapon because it came cheap is insane.

He’s one serviceman. Does one serviceman’s opinions and experience speak for every serviceman? Having talked to and worked with many servicemen myself, my experience is they can differ.

I think your last point is a matter of perspective. The way the government saw it the SIG performed as well or better than the Glock based on their scoring criteria. That it was cheaper made the choice even easier. Was their criteria right? Like you said, time will tell.

 

[Drm50]

I just fit a set of Altamont rosewood grips on a Cz-75 this AM. Grips were crowding mag release which put screws off from frame. Never fired gun but did check trigger pull. It was god pull, quick reset but good bit of take up.
I got a question, what does a guy buy new if he wants a full size 9mm? It looks to me like this CZ-75 is as good or better than a Colt or Browning. * no plastic

 

[jar]

Classic hammer fired P-series Sig Sauer; P220, P226, P229 and if you can find it P239.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

And he paid for a python and got a garter snake.

I definitely would not say this, it’s more a matter of what I was expecting vs what it is based on reviews. I totally plan on keeping and shooting the heck out of it, the heavy trigger isn’t a problem for me, because of my work I have very strong hands and have been shooting revolvers mostly DA for well over 20 years. Remember, this thread isn’t about disliking a gun, it’s about it being over rated.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Because the "One Shot Stop" is a myth."

Hum...

Kind of having trouble finding out where anyone, especially me, is talking about one shot stops...

I'll clarify...

I'm talking about conflating magazine capacity with the ability to use one's firearm proficiently.

They aren't the same thing, nor are they equal.

 

[OPC]

What's the most overrated handgun in your opinion?

Glock

 

[The Verminator]

I definitely would not say this, it’s more a matter of what I was expecting vs what it is based on reviews. I totally plan on keeping and shooting the heck out of it, the heavy trigger isn’t a problem for me, because of my work I have very strong hands and have been shooting revolvers mostly DA for well over 20 years. Remember, this thread isn’t about disliking a gun, it’s about it being over rated.

Can a gunsmith fix that trigger for you so it is similar to your Rugers?

 

[Drm50]

I would have to say Glock. Others like 1911s are actually state of the art combat pistols.
Designed for adverse conditions and made to specs of ordinance board. The hi dollar 1911 are nothing but same design made to closer tolerance and hand fitted. The Brn HP is another fine pistol but I don’t believe as forgiving in some conditions.
It seems to me the Glock fans are always pushing them. They are a plastic 9mm service pistol. If you were to exclude a pistol for accidental discharges the Glock would be the hands down winner vs the GI 1911-1911a1.

 

[Shane Tuttle]

Kind of having trouble finding out where anyone, especially me, is talking about one shot stops...

I'll clarify...

I'm talking about conflating magazine capacity with the ability to use one's firearm proficiently.

They aren't the same thing, nor are they equal.

Personally, I was glad you clarified. I was going to respond with multiple assailants and some people may not want to be caught having to reload. Your follow-up comment points out a disturbing trend of some people using the reason for higher capacity.

 

[jetinteriorguy]

Can a gunsmith fix that trigger for you so it is similar to your Rugers?

I’m not gonna to mess with it, I’m already getting used to it. I am tempted to somehow take the edges off the serrations on the trigger though, but only if I can figure out how to do it without buggering things up.

 

[stagpanther]

First of all.......DON'T expect truth in a GAO argument defending their own decisions.

And I've read many articles on this and many of them emphasize modularity as a huge factor.

This is one.......

https://www.americanconcealandcarry....nt advantage.

But after all......as you say.......it WAS a Modular Handgun System competition.

But Glock knew how weak the 320 was and assumed their overall superiority would give them a win even though the 19 offered less modularity.

On the other hand, a weak pistol can be made cheap and thus a low bid can also be made.

How weak is the SIG?

Listen to an Army guy who uses it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3UYFrwmBZk

"What happens in New Hampshire?"--best comment in the video, I got a good laugh out of that (and I live in Maine).

102 milion less than Glock's bid--can you say "Piggy-back economies of scale and costs savings passed on by Next Generation Squad Weapon Program"

I personally would rather have something that is 100% reliable and excels at one thing than have a multi-role that is unpredictable and "OK" at lots of things, so I would agree with the Glock assessment.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I was going to respond with multiple assailants and some people may not want to be caught having to reload."

And I'll respond with... What if you're attacked by a whole tribe of Hottentots?

8/14/17/250 rounds isn't going to do it!

That's one of the other great bugaboos that far too many people fixate on -- you're going to have to face down multiple determined attackers who, in the face of your gun, are bound and determined to kill you...

Sigh.

Jason Borne Jack Reacher John Mclean real life ain't.

Yes, there are numerous instances of Joes being set upon by multiple attackers... but those attackers are not hardened operators employing the latest envelopment and engagement tactics.

Those attackers are invariably opportunistic thugs looking for a soft target.

Invariably, when the soft target turns out to be not quite as soft as expected and pulls a gun and possibly fires it, the result is virtually always the attackers turning tail.

Yes, there are instances where the above doesn't apply. But they are the extremely rare exception.

The fixation should not be on gun capacity.

It should be on gun proficiency.

It you want to add a carry gun with capacity? That's fine.

But don't buy into the myth that you're going to have to John Wick your way out of situations every day and twice on Sundays.

 

[The Verminator]

In truth, hardly any of us will ever get into ANY kind of gunfight.

However, we prepare for worst case. Concealed carry is just in case.

There are two new situations that have emerged in the last ten or 15 years--terror and teams of thugs coming to take you down.

My worst case is shopping center or church with three terrorists with AK47s.

Second worse case is three armed thugs who want my car.

The terrorists won't run. In trying to stay alive I need to move--to better cover or to gain tactical advantage and I'll probably have to use suppressing fire to cover my movement.

I'll need all that ammo unless they kill me before I use it up.

The thugs? Popular wisdom is they'll run away. Unless........they're hopped up on drugs or just crazy or simply bent on revenge because I already killed one of their buddies.

Not likely possibilities, but concealed carry is ALL about being alert, informed and having a plan in your head for both best and worst case.

(AND being properly equipped.)

Either way 15 shots and a spare 15 could be useful.

And proficiency? Sure. You damned well better be proficient with whatever you decide to carry.

I don't believe popular wisdom.......ever. I make my own.

Popular wisdom is usually real popular and not real wise.

 

[The Verminator]

I’m not gonna to mess with it, I’m already getting used to it. I am tempted to somehow take the edges off the serrations on the trigger though, but only if I can figure out how to do it without buggering things up.

What kind of idiot manufacturer makes a combat gun with a serrated trigger?

That aside, there will no doubt be a smooth trigger marketed that you can just pop in.

You say you're getting "used to" the heavy trigger pull.

Well, getting used to something and having the best are distinctly different things.

I'd take it to a good gunsmith and have him make it the best that it can be.

One can get used to a nagging wife, too.........but.......

 

[Shane Tuttle]

"I was going to respond with multiple assailants and some people may not want to be caught having to reload."

And I'll respond with... What if you're attacked by a whole tribe of Hottentots?

8/14/17/250 rounds isn't going to do it!

That's one of the other great bugaboos that far too many people fixate on -- you're going to have to face down multiple determined attackers who, in the face of your gun, are bound and determined to kill you...

Sigh.

Jason Borne Jack Reacher John Mclean real life ain't.

Yes, there are numerous instances of Joes being set upon by multiple attackers... but those attackers are not hardened operators employing the latest envelopment and engagement tactics.

Those attackers are invariably opportunistic thugs looking for a soft target.

Invariably, when the soft target turns out to be not quite as soft as expected and pulls a gun and possibly fires it, the result is virtually always the attackers turning tail.

Yes, there are instances where the above doesn't apply. But they are the extremely rare exception.

The fixation should not be on gun capacity.

It should be on gun proficiency.

It you want to add a carry gun with capacity? That's fine.

But don't buy into the myth that you're going to have to John Wick your way out of situations every day and twice on Sundays.

OK, as you clarified, I will, too.

I was just saying I agreed with you by way of "pointing out a disturbing trend of some people using the reason for higher capacity". Point's stipulated.

However, if I'm proficient with a platform that happens to have a higher capacity, I'm not downloading my magazine to fewer rounds. Also, as rare it may be, it sure does appear it's becoming more and more common assailants aren't acting alone and not just fleeing by the sound of a shotgun being racked. To ultimately play devil's advocate, I refuse to purposely carry fewer rounds based on faulty statistics. And, you said it best; have a plan for worst case. That worst case, albiet a small one, is dealing with multiple attackers.

It ins't about being John Wick. It's about being reasonably armed for the worst case scenario. YES, some people are fixated on capacity over proficiency. But to take a pass on capacity partly based on statistics if proficiency isn't lacking is not my cup of tea. That, and if it's OK to carry a higher capacity for your BUG is OK, maybe the BUG should be your primary from the get-go.