What's the most overrated handgun in your opinion?
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The Verminator
Moderator
The articles I've read about the decision.
And we're back to anyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong, which, of course is understandable, as I often feel the same way towards people who disagree with my opinions.
The OP didn't ask about the validity of our opinions, didn't ask us to defend our opinions, or why we held a certain opinion, just what, in our opinion was the most overrated handgun was.
The fact that more people answered "Glock" than anything else isn't an opinion, its a fact.
A least you got one that works...
The new gun sold as the Python is not the same gun as the original Python. Looks similar, but the lockwork is different. And, while its not uncommon for the early production run of a new gun to have some examples with issues reach the consumers, the new "Pythons" that our local shop got were particularly bad in that regard. 5 of the first 8 the shop got had to go back to Colt, because they didn't function properly. One, brand new in the box, went back because it wouldn't function AT ALL!
The guns since then have been better, the shop has sold a couple dozen in the last 4 years, or so, the shop will get you one, if you want it, but doesn't keep any on the shelf, he's not "wasting" space (and money) on them, anymore.
I've always felt the original Python was overrated. Not that it wasn't quality, just that it was overrated. The new Pythons are absolutely overrated, and are not the same as the originals.
It shouldn't happen, but sometimes, it does, you pay for the pony and get a nag....
Would you mind sharing those articles?
I don’t see any part in the GAO report where they criticize Glock specifically for a lack of modularity, which to me is telling. If the argument was Glock’s pistol was not modular enough to meet the requirements of the contract then that would be a fairly important and, were the government biased, easy way to eliminate Glock from the competition and I would expect that would be mentioned in the report. As a contractor bidding on the contract it is up to Glock to meet the requirements. Along those lines I do not recall reading any official statements from Glock where they state they felt the contract placed an undue emphasis on modularity (it was the Modular Handgun System competition, a requirement for modularity isn’t exactly a surprise). If the parties in the competition do not appear to think that modularity was overly emphasized, I would be interested in reading who did and why.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"But........why screw around when you can have a Glock that always goes bang and holds 14 instead of eight?"
Why depend on capacity to make up for questionable proficiency?
Why depend on capacity to make up for questionable proficiency?
The Verminator
Moderator
Because the "One Shot Stop" is a myth.
The more scientific studies of the FBI concluded that stopping was usually a matter of several shots with any handgun.
Thus faster repeat shots were essential and the 9mm was seen as the best compromise.
The Verminator
Moderator
First of all.......DON'T expect truth in a GAO argument defending their own decisions.
And I've read many articles on this and many of them emphasize modularity as a huge factor.
This is one.......
https://www.americanconcealandcarry... outperformed,gave it a significant advantage.
But after all......as you say.......it WAS a Modular Handgun System competition.
But Glock knew how weak the 320 was and assumed their overall superiority would give them a win even though the 19 offered less modularity.
On the other hand, a weak pistol can be made cheap and thus a low bid can also be made.
How weak is the SIG?
Listen to an Army guy who uses it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3UYFrwmBZk
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First you have an article from a website I have never heard of until today, with no credited author and seemingly scant on proof other than making the same assertion that you did and without going over the actual scores used to make the decision. Also, it seems a bit odd to use that article in support of your argument, when that article praises the P320 in a number of ways, which doesn’t seem to follow with the “weak pistol” argument above.
The second link doesn’t appear to go anywhere, at least not on mobile.
In comparison to the accounts of the organizations seemingly involved firsthand in the competition I don’t know that this shows me that modularity was unduly emphasized, but apparently this is worth more to you than the actual report from the event, because of course we can’t trust the government, but we can trust random websites and people on YouTube, who of course can’t be biased. One of the most disappointing parts of being a Glock fan, like I mentioned above, is the other Glock fans that treat their enjoyment of an inanimate object like a religion. Glock lost. Glock moved on. I’m not sure why you can’t.
Edit: I managed to strip out the parts of the url that weren’t working. You just googled “why did sig p320 win the army contract” and posted that result. The quote at the top of that results list is from the same first article. Essentially you posted the same link twice as “proof”. These are the “articles” you read?
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jetinteriorguy
New member
I have been dry firing it a lot since I picked it up yesterday and am getting accustomed to the heavy trigger already. I do find it odd that the SA function is as heavy as it is though. I think it was my expectations given the reviews that was where I was disappointed. I haven’t been shooting my Smiths much for a few years, mostly just my Rugers, so I dug out all my Smiths yesterday and the DA actions were a little lighter but not a huge difference. I’m just so accustomed to the Rugers my expectations are pretty high. And no, in thousands of rounds I haven’t had any misfires/light strikes even with my lightened actions. The Rugers may not win any beauty contests but boy are they a great shooting revolver with a little work. Easy to work on and real tanks for taking a beating.And we're back to anyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong, which, of course is understandable, as I often feel the same way towards people who disagree with my opinions.
The OP didn't ask about the validity of our opinions, didn't ask us to defend our opinions, or why we held a certain opinion, just what, in our opinion was the most overrated handgun was.
The fact that more people answered "Glock" than anything else isn't an opinion, its a fact.
A least you got one that works...
The new gun sold as the Python is not the same gun as the original Python. Looks similar, but the lockwork is different. And, while its not uncommon for the early production run of a new gun to have some examples with issues reach the consumers, the new "Pythons" that our local shop got were particularly bad in that regard. 5 of the first 8 the shop got had to go back to Colt, because they didn't function properly. One, brand new in the box, went back because it wouldn't function AT ALL!
The guns since then have been better, the shop has sold a couple dozen in the last 4 years, or so, the shop will get you one, if you want it, but doesn't keep any on the shelf, he's not "wasting" space (and money) on them, anymore.
I've always felt the original Python was overrated. Not that it wasn't quality, just that it was overrated. The new Pythons are absolutely overrated, and are not the same as the originals.
It shouldn't happen, but sometimes, it does, you pay for the pony and get a nag....
The Verminator
Moderator
The Verminator
Moderator
Can you have the Python trigger improved by a gunsmith?
Is this a video of a person watching another video about the MHS and reacting to it?
I don’t know if I can make it through 20 min of him stopping the video he is watching every 30 seconds to comment about what he thinks is wrong about the video he’s watching, when that video isn’t even key to the discussion we’re having. This kind of stuff is great for picking up views on social media, but for an actual discussion of the material at hand it’s extremely tedious.
The Verminator
Moderator
And he paid for a python and got a garter snake.
The Verminator
Moderator
Biased polling results in biased results......not facts.
The Verminator
Moderator
Why do I find this stuff for you if you refuse to watch?
If you won't watch I can tell you that he relates the actual experience his unit has had with the SIG and it is evidence of how weak the SIG is in real life in the Army.
He also comments on the "modularity" issue and ridicules the idea that people will be switching parts around to use .40 calibers or even changing out grips.......he says it just won't happen or be allowed.
Remember that you said “articles”, not a former soldier on YouTube that does reaction content.
“They pay more attention to their grass than they do their firearms.”
“If you just look at this thing it goes out of battery.”
“New Hampshire, what happens there?”
You can’t honestly think this this is even remotely an unbiased examination of this issue. Small Arms Solutions would have been a much better choice to back up your argument.
The Verminator
Moderator
Glock may have lost this one, but they haven't moved on.......they have stated that they are staying in the fight and vowed that they intend to see that warfighters worldwide get the best weapons that exist.
As for me, there's no "moving on," I'm just here answering posts that have questionable assertions both slight and sometimes large and post my own views on the topic.
No harm intended or, I hope, taken.
That is exactly what moving on in a government contract environment means. You look for the next contract. It’s not some altruistic endeavor. Even if you “believe” in your product the point is to see your product sold and make money off the sales.
Well, the modularity requirement did exist, it was valid, and, in fact, the selection was supposed to be for an "MHS"--Modular Handgun System.
You can hardly blame the government for giving a lot of weight to a feature that was the entire point of the selection process.
As far as Glock's complaints, we saw the same thing (different company) with the selection process that resulted in the Beretta 92FS becoming the M9. There's a lot of money and prestige at stake. Makes sense for the loser to at least take a shot at seeing if they can sway the results.
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