What's a great 38 sp. SD ammo?
- Thread starter Doc Holliday 1950
- Start date
Very true. A snubby 38 throws most bullets in the 650-750 fps range, no matter what you do to the bullet there is only so much it can do at that velocity. Expecting magic bullets from technology is a foolish proposition. It seems every week someone talks about carrying wadcutters in their 38.
After all the advancements in bullet tech, show me one that has proven more effective than the Remington 125 grain 357 magnum circa 1984 on the street, not jello, not water but people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8WNQxIjutc
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=YgGjNQ_hhIQ
This a repeat .. But by comments made , the must have missed it
Federal HST 130gr 38spl ... This is listed as a +P ... But by velocity and said recoil .. It behaved as a standard pressure
Edit : just bought 4 boxes at Wal-Mart for 24.37 a box .. After looking at Academy, 3 LGS's ..and Bass Pro
This a repeat .. But by comments made , the must have missed it
Federal HST 130gr 38spl ... This is listed as a +P ... But by velocity and said recoil .. It behaved as a standard pressure
Edit : just bought 4 boxes at Wal-Mart for 24.37 a box .. After looking at Academy, 3 LGS's ..and Bass Pro
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.38SPL enthusiast
New member
Maybe the original 200 grain factory loading was as weak as some remember, but my 200 grain reloads over a modest powder charge were always great for even large varmints. Seemed to be equal to or better than anything else I've used out of a two inch gun. Also, such respected gun writers as Ken Waters, Charles Askins, and even Elmer Keith favored it in .38's.
It sort of depends on what you are trying to get out of the .38 snubby, and for whom, and what that person's skill level is.
If I were after the lowest possible recoil, and "at least it's not a. 22lr" stopping power, then 148gr wadcutters would be high on my list.
The Speer Short Barrel would be great for better performance. Will the expand? Who knows, but they are a lot more likely to than a non-hollow point.
.38+p.....you might gain some speed, but it is up to the individual to decide if there is any real gain there.
I have one snubby, and its currently used for home defense by a loved one in a trailer park. It is loaded with Hornady CD 110gr due to thin trailer walls and close proximity to the neighbors.
If I were after the lowest possible recoil, and "at least it's not a. 22lr" stopping power, then 148gr wadcutters would be high on my list.
The Speer Short Barrel would be great for better performance. Will the expand? Who knows, but they are a lot more likely to than a non-hollow point.
.38+p.....you might gain some speed, but it is up to the individual to decide if there is any real gain there.
I have one snubby, and its currently used for home defense by a loved one in a trailer park. It is loaded with Hornady CD 110gr due to thin trailer walls and close proximity to the neighbors.
This was written by one of the best posters on this site. It discusses the 38 and what the real 38 loads were like before it was watered down to the weak level it is now and how most 38+P is not even up to the original 38 special loads.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
My uncle was a cop till his death. In about 1967 he killed a man while on duty. The load was the old round nose lead. And it was indeed a widow maker. It made a widow out of the woman married to the man my uncle killed. One shot was all it took too. His gun was a model 15 4" barrel.
Am I promoting the RNL for defense? Nope, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is not effective or will not stop someone. But there are better bullets now.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
My uncle was a cop till his death. In about 1967 he killed a man while on duty. The load was the old round nose lead. And it was indeed a widow maker. It made a widow out of the woman married to the man my uncle killed. One shot was all it took too. His gun was a model 15 4" barrel.
Am I promoting the RNL for defense? Nope, but don't fool yourself into thinking it is not effective or will not stop someone. But there are better bullets now.
The 130 HST chronoed at a consistent 800 plus change FPS through my Colt DS snub, best 5-shot 25-yard group under 3 inches, and penetrated 18 inches of water jugs before coming to rest perfectly expanded with zero fragmentation.
I realize this does not translate directly into the same results on tissue, but it is a good indicator of velocity, expansion, and bullet construction.
The old LRN could & did kill, but so did rocks, and we're lightyears beyond both in modern JHPs today.
Denis
I realize this does not translate directly into the same results on tissue, but it is a good indicator of velocity, expansion, and bullet construction.
The old LRN could & did kill, but so did rocks, and we're lightyears beyond both in modern JHPs today.
Denis
I am no expert in anything firearms related but I have googled and searched forums for a number years regarding topics such as Plus P 38 Special especially as it relates to airweight snubbies, particularly older “non Plus P rated” ones. The internet is a wonderful thing and there are many knowledgeable experts and posters. However, I would feel a lot more comfortable about the wisdom of using Plus P in some revolvers if almost every single source reporting the weak nature of Plus P and it’s non-issue in older firearms that I have found for a number of years did not ultimately lead back to one particular individual who has been promoting that idea for years and who regardless of his expertise is still one poster on the internet whose expertise and knowledge is frankly unverified. If you have searched this subject at all, you know what I mean and I mean no disrespect to him. But, just like a doctor, I would like a second and third opinion instead of reading source after source that trace back to one man’s opinion of what others can safely do with their guns. It weakens the value of the information. Repetition does not increase reliability of information. 
+P isn't, as a rule, all that much hotter than most .38 Special commercial stuff widely sold 30 years ago.
I would not use a LOT of it in an Airweight variation (as in regular weekend use), but a few now & then shouldn't damage a lightweight frame.
I'll be swapping the HST into one of mine that gets carried several times during the year.
As for older guns, +P should be fine in an older revolver of good quality & in good mechanical condition going back to about 1925.
The early 1920s saw the incorporation of "modern" heat treating spread throughout the industry.
By 1925, Smiths & Cols should have all been treated better than previously.
Before that, the steels were notably softer, and you risk premature wear on those older guns.
In more modern times, the Colt Detective Specials & other models using the same frame toward the end of Colt DA revolver production COULD develop frame stretching with +P.
The last DS manuals recommended that those guns be returned to Colt for frame stretch evaluation at 3000 rounds of +P.
Use of +P depends on the model.
Airweight Smiths, I would not recommend it regularly.
Carrying +P in one, and shooting maybe a handful of +Ps a year for familiarization, should be fine for many years.
A steel Smith or Ruger snub, blast away.
Full-sized Colt DA (Trooper frame), same.
Alloy framed full-sized Smith (K-Frame), might want to do +P irregularly.
Denis
I would not use a LOT of it in an Airweight variation (as in regular weekend use), but a few now & then shouldn't damage a lightweight frame.
I'll be swapping the HST into one of mine that gets carried several times during the year.
As for older guns, +P should be fine in an older revolver of good quality & in good mechanical condition going back to about 1925.
The early 1920s saw the incorporation of "modern" heat treating spread throughout the industry.
By 1925, Smiths & Cols should have all been treated better than previously.
Before that, the steels were notably softer, and you risk premature wear on those older guns.
In more modern times, the Colt Detective Specials & other models using the same frame toward the end of Colt DA revolver production COULD develop frame stretching with +P.
The last DS manuals recommended that those guns be returned to Colt for frame stretch evaluation at 3000 rounds of +P.
Use of +P depends on the model.
Airweight Smiths, I would not recommend it regularly.
Carrying +P in one, and shooting maybe a handful of +Ps a year for familiarization, should be fine for many years.
A steel Smith or Ruger snub, blast away.
Full-sized Colt DA (Trooper frame), same.
Alloy framed full-sized Smith (K-Frame), might want to do +P irregularly.
Denis
I don't mean this to sound flippant, but the answer would have to be; one that has a case, primer, powder and bullet.
There are as many perspectives on SD ammunition as there are people making it. And unless you know before it happens what specific circumstance you will be in when you need to use the pistol for self defense, anything I (or anyone else) tells you would be sheer speculation on our part.
- Are you going to face multiple assailants?
- How will they be equipped?
- How will they be dressed?
- Will he/they be amateurs or professionals?
- Will you see them coming or will the attack be a total surprise?
- Where will this shootout take place; home, office, public place?
- At what distance will this take place?
- Will you be alone or responsible for others?
- Will there be a crowd of people around (so that you have to worry about what's in back of your "target")?
- How much do you practice?
- How good of a shot are you - really?
- Will you be shooting for center of mass or the "target's" head?
- Will the bullet you fire strike bone or just soft tissue?
A 38 Special bullet will - assuming the "target" isn't wearing a ballistic vest or multiple layers of clothing that provide similar effect - make a 9 millimeter hole in your victim. If it is an expanding bullet and expands by 50%, it will make a 13 or 14 millimeter hole in your victim. Will one take your victim "out of the fight" whereas the other bullet will not? Possibly. It depends where you can place the shot and what it encounters when it arrives there.
What you have chosen will be fine. In the event you ever need to shoot someone with it, it will probably be effective.
He really didn't talk alot about it .. I only saw him during holidays and such .. He retired in the mid seventies...
Id say during the 60's and early 70's Wadcutters was as good as any in a 2 inch barreled snubbie ...
But , I doubt your " due respect " My Uncle passed away from a massive heart attack in 84 ..after serving his Country first in the Marines and then in the CIA
Id say during the 60's and early 70's Wadcutters was as good as any in a 2 inch barreled snubbie ...
But , I doubt your " due respect " My Uncle passed away from a massive heart attack in 84 ..after serving his Country first in the Marines and then in the CIA
I feel a little bad about my previous post as if I was taking a “shot” at a long time poster’s opinion and knowledge (albeit without naming him). That was not my intent as I do respect the unnamed poster’s knowledge and opinions. My point was merely that I trust information that I’ve found hundreds of times from fifty different sources that agree much more than information that I’ve found hundreds of times from one source. I certainly defer to the wealth of expertise on this forum.
I still avoid use of Plus P in my older airweights, though I’d use them in a pinch.
I still avoid use of Plus P in my older airweights, though I’d use them in a pinch.