Joe the Redneck
New member
.338 Winnie Mag. or higher
Grizz scare the hell out of me.
Grizz scare the hell out of me.
What to rely on, while killing a grizzly
- Thread starter bjones870
- Start date
"Others choose 12 gauge compact pump, rifle sights, a basic 3-1/2 magnum riot gun, and it's loaded with SERIOUS slugs, not the ones you buy for $4 a box at walmart."
Exactly
There is nothing short of what Hubel458 is doing that will compare to a Dixie IXL DGS Slug. According to their web site
"The Dixie IXL-DGS is .730" and weighs 870 grs. It is designed for rifled barrels and .729"/.730" bore smoothbore with cylinder chokes. The velocity in the loaded rounds is 1200'/" from 20" 12 gauge 3" Hastings rifled barrels. Dixie designed this slug as requested by experienced shooters in Alaska. It is a true Dangerous Game slug/bullet that will stand up against the most severe tests! It is cast from our standard bullet alloy and heat-treated.There are other offerings that call themselves DGS (Dangerous Game Slugs) that are nothing more than swaged lead. They will never stand up to the severe situations that the Dixie IXL-DGS is designed for."
Taylor KO of 109. Dixie scores big time in the Linebugh Bone Box tests and leaves the biggest holes.
By comparison, the Garrett 45/70 Hammerhead is half a much gun on the Taylor KO scale at 55. And that is some serious bear medicine so you can only imagine the insane the knock-down power of a .730 hard cast slug weighing 870 grains at 1200 fps.
Exactly
There is nothing short of what Hubel458 is doing that will compare to a Dixie IXL DGS Slug. According to their web site
"The Dixie IXL-DGS is .730" and weighs 870 grs. It is designed for rifled barrels and .729"/.730" bore smoothbore with cylinder chokes. The velocity in the loaded rounds is 1200'/" from 20" 12 gauge 3" Hastings rifled barrels. Dixie designed this slug as requested by experienced shooters in Alaska. It is a true Dangerous Game slug/bullet that will stand up against the most severe tests! It is cast from our standard bullet alloy and heat-treated.There are other offerings that call themselves DGS (Dangerous Game Slugs) that are nothing more than swaged lead. They will never stand up to the severe situations that the Dixie IXL-DGS is designed for."
Taylor KO of 109. Dixie scores big time in the Linebugh Bone Box tests and leaves the biggest holes.
By comparison, the Garrett 45/70 Hammerhead is half a much gun on the Taylor KO scale at 55. And that is some serious bear medicine so you can only imagine the insane the knock-down power of a .730 hard cast slug weighing 870 grains at 1200 fps.
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The 8 bore was an elephant rifle with either round ball or conical lead. A 10 bore with modern slugs would outperform a black powder or early nitro 8 bore. A 12 bore with modern slugs may not be a .458 magnum, but it is the equal of nearly anything that used to be used in africa back at the turn of the century, other than bore diameter. Nobody should ever underestimate the power behind a top line 12 gauge slug, or the size of the hole, or how deep it will go.
Same goes for that stodgy old 45-70 that could knock a bison down, or take a running horse in the chest and throw it to the ground. The big bore heavy bullet, even at modest velocities, is dangerous.
Sure, I'd rather have a 416 rigby, or even a 505 gibbs, but I'm not that dedicated. I'd never carry something that big, where I might toss a pistol or a guide gun into the truck.
Same goes for that stodgy old 45-70 that could knock a bison down, or take a running horse in the chest and throw it to the ground. The big bore heavy bullet, even at modest velocities, is dangerous.
Sure, I'd rather have a 416 rigby, or even a 505 gibbs, but I'm not that dedicated. I'd never carry something that big, where I might toss a pistol or a guide gun into the truck.
Dear jmortimer,
That is some pretty serious business. I wonder what they are like to shoot? I suspect not a bit of fun at all. There comes a point in time where recoil can cause serious medical problems such as retinal detachment aside from the orthopedic shoulder problems.
There has to be a balance between acceptable recoil and acceptable knock down power. I agree though that a 870 gr hard cast slug at 1200 fps will get a bear's attention quickly.
That is some pretty serious business. I wonder what they are like to shoot? I suspect not a bit of fun at all. There comes a point in time where recoil can cause serious medical problems such as retinal detachment aside from the orthopedic shoulder problems.
There has to be a balance between acceptable recoil and acceptable knock down power. I agree though that a 870 gr hard cast slug at 1200 fps will get a bear's attention quickly.
I'd never make it out into the woods if that was the qualification!buckshotbob
Inactive
12 gauge slugs @ about 1600 fps
[Bear spray will dissuade 99% of bear attacks.]
Is there reliable data to support this?
With all the recommendations some are ignoring the fact that none of us is going to carry a 10 pound rifle when we go hiking, and may not have time to work the action for follow up shots.
The beauty of a shotgun is that it is light, points naturally, and fast to get into action. In addition with the right slugs it is probably as good as anything below a .416 Rigby.
I think if I were to buy a gun for bear protection when hiking or around the yard I would see if Benelli or someone made a light extremely reliable semi auto that would handle 3" slugs.
I was a pump man for many years but when I started shooting skeet I found that once in a great while I would short shuck the next shot. While the 870 Rem is a great gun, I would prefer a SA to make sure I could get the second and follow up shots off if possible.
Not sure what is available today as I have been out of the loop for over 10 years.
Jerry
Is there reliable data to support this?
With all the recommendations some are ignoring the fact that none of us is going to carry a 10 pound rifle when we go hiking, and may not have time to work the action for follow up shots.
The beauty of a shotgun is that it is light, points naturally, and fast to get into action. In addition with the right slugs it is probably as good as anything below a .416 Rigby.
I think if I were to buy a gun for bear protection when hiking or around the yard I would see if Benelli or someone made a light extremely reliable semi auto that would handle 3" slugs.
I was a pump man for many years but when I started shooting skeet I found that once in a great while I would short shuck the next shot. While the 870 Rem is a great gun, I would prefer a SA to make sure I could get the second and follow up shots off if possible.
Not sure what is available today as I have been out of the loop for over 10 years.
Jerry
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
For a firearm, I agree on pump or semi-auto 12ga with some really high-end slugs, however...
As grubbylabs said, bear spray is the best defensive option. Hunting is one thing, for defense.... bear spray.
Bear spray is lighter to carry, easier to bring to effect, requires less precision and is almost 100% effective if you hit what you're supposed to hit. Yes, you might miss, but if you can't hit 'em with spray, you're not going to hit them with bullets either.
As grubbylabs said, bear spray is the best defensive option. Hunting is one thing, for defense.... bear spray.
Bear spray is lighter to carry, easier to bring to effect, requires less precision and is almost 100% effective if you hit what you're supposed to hit. Yes, you might miss, but if you can't hit 'em with spray, you're not going to hit them with bullets either.
Both good but get the heaviest bullet that will chamber in your gun if you go with .308. Otherwise if you haven't bought yet look at a larger caliber. 12 gauge is my choice loaded with slugs, I'm not brand fussy, 18 or 20" smooth bore barrel and hi-viz rifle sights. Then practice, practice, practice snap shooting at targets 50 feet to 50 yards away. You arer not going to have time for that careful aimed shot and shooting from a bench rest won't help if you are on your hindfeet and you suddenly find you are the menu.
Just dos centavos from an old dinosaur.
"I'm probably going to move in to bear country, and would like your advice. I know bear attacks are unlikely, and probably will never happen. I'm
looking for advice of what rifle caliber, with decent shot placement (head, neck,shoulder) will do the most damage? I'm looking at the .308, but I'm thinking I'll need something bigger. If not a 12 gauge slug?"
To give an answer, we need to ask some questions.
What kind of bear? Brown/Honey bear, Grisly, Polar or ?
What will you be doing while walking in 'bear country'? Picking flowers, hunting rabbit, hunting moose?
You mentioned a 308 and 12 gauge and shot placement. If hunting bear, you get to pick your shot and worry about shot placement. If you are going to be eaten by that bear, you don't.
In general, I would think that most any modern 30 cal or larger rifle would do in a pinch. (I would skip on 30-30s and 30 cal carbines.) A 12 gauge slug is formidable, not my choice. As for action type, go with what you are accustom to and like. You will do under pressure what you have trained to do and being chased by a bear would qualify as being under pressure.
No running shoes are not a good choice. Bears can run a lot faster than us.
OSOK
looking for advice of what rifle caliber, with decent shot placement (head, neck,shoulder) will do the most damage? I'm looking at the .308, but I'm thinking I'll need something bigger. If not a 12 gauge slug?"
To give an answer, we need to ask some questions.
What kind of bear? Brown/Honey bear, Grisly, Polar or ?
What will you be doing while walking in 'bear country'? Picking flowers, hunting rabbit, hunting moose?
You mentioned a 308 and 12 gauge and shot placement. If hunting bear, you get to pick your shot and worry about shot placement. If you are going to be eaten by that bear, you don't.
In general, I would think that most any modern 30 cal or larger rifle would do in a pinch. (I would skip on 30-30s and 30 cal carbines.) A 12 gauge slug is formidable, not my choice. As for action type, go with what you are accustom to and like. You will do under pressure what you have trained to do and being chased by a bear would qualify as being under pressure.
No running shoes are not a good choice. Bears can run a lot faster than us.
OSOK
Please, for God's sake leave the buckshot at home. It is near useless on even small black bears. Slugs are a good choice.
I cannot think of a factroy loaded 308 I'd feel comfortable with, but with good handloads using heavy bullets a 308 would be about the smallest gun I'd use, and would prefer something bigger.
I'm going to repeat a story from my childhood. Most people don't believe it, but I have newspaper clippings reporting it filed away. It wasn't a hallucination.
My father was fishing in yellowstone, and in an out of the way place, encountered a bear that was caught between the water and the public.
He was attacked, and survived with no injuries, as the bear had mostly meant a false charge, I believe. he had fallen in water when the bear hit him.
With no time to wait for a rifle, as this was only a few hundred yards from maybe a hundred or more people, a ranger went to check, and he was charged. He emptied his .357 magnum into the bear, and dropped it.
Those who believe that nothing short of a gargantuan slug out of a monsterous rifle will stop a grizzly are wrong. Unless luck is very much against you, a .308 or standard hunting caliber will stop a grizzly with several rounds. Black powder with round balls used to.
A genuine grizzly gun will increase your chances of survival in case of an attack, but you will not automatically die if you don't carry the optimal weapon.
What is going to kill a person is missing, panicking, or having that ginormous .458 magnum lying against a stumpr or strapped to a backpack, rather than having a glock in .40 S&W with a dozen rounds that you can dump into the chest.
I do suggest bear spray. Very strongly. However, it is like a pistol. It may still not be enough, and with a brisk wind, it will come right back into your own face. For example, a brisk wind that kept your scent and the sound of you walking from reaching a napping bear in the first place?
The important thing about a grizzly weapon is the same thing that is important when presented with an atm holdup or a mugging at the mall. The .454 casull that is stuck under the seat won't stop either a grizzly or a mugger, but that glock at least gives you a chance.
Better underarmed than UNARMED.
My father was fishing in yellowstone, and in an out of the way place, encountered a bear that was caught between the water and the public.
He was attacked, and survived with no injuries, as the bear had mostly meant a false charge, I believe. he had fallen in water when the bear hit him.
With no time to wait for a rifle, as this was only a few hundred yards from maybe a hundred or more people, a ranger went to check, and he was charged. He emptied his .357 magnum into the bear, and dropped it.
Those who believe that nothing short of a gargantuan slug out of a monsterous rifle will stop a grizzly are wrong. Unless luck is very much against you, a .308 or standard hunting caliber will stop a grizzly with several rounds. Black powder with round balls used to.
A genuine grizzly gun will increase your chances of survival in case of an attack, but you will not automatically die if you don't carry the optimal weapon.
What is going to kill a person is missing, panicking, or having that ginormous .458 magnum lying against a stumpr or strapped to a backpack, rather than having a glock in .40 S&W with a dozen rounds that you can dump into the chest.
I do suggest bear spray. Very strongly. However, it is like a pistol. It may still not be enough, and with a brisk wind, it will come right back into your own face. For example, a brisk wind that kept your scent and the sound of you walking from reaching a napping bear in the first place?
The important thing about a grizzly weapon is the same thing that is important when presented with an atm holdup or a mugging at the mall. The .454 casull that is stuck under the seat won't stop either a grizzly or a mugger, but that glock at least gives you a chance.
Better underarmed than UNARMED.
Not regular slugs. Brenneke or equivalent. They penetrate much better. No buckshot for me. Most go for a pump gun but I'd prefer a semi-auto shotgun I know how to keep absolutely reliable--and a shotgun with that reputation. Remington 1100, 11-87, Browning A5, etc. During a bear charge I place a high value on "no think" fast repeat shots. Knowing I have that makes me more confident--and that's important. (Must add important but most important to remember to make that first shot a good one because there may not be time for another--no matter what the action type of the gun.)
As some have said, a moderately powerful gun you have practiced with and can shoot well is a lot better than a more powerful gun you've probably shot less due to it's recoil.
Don't believe anyone has mentioned that head/brain shots are the only sure way to stop a charging grizzly. Of course not just in the head but in the brain. That's the shot to go for and a lot of guns will do for that. But, if you can handle the larger guns--if--and you miss the brain you're going to penetrate more and do more damage otherwise. Assuming long, heavy bullets. No matter what gun, always the proper bullets for grizzly or brown bears. For any game, of course.
The big reason for shooting them in the brain is they can be hit elsewhere and hit good, and with a very powerful gun, but still have the life in them to kill you before they die.
Lots of practice before a grizzly hunt would be a must for me. Hitting the brain with their head bobbing up and down as they come for you. Not easy, and especially so due to fear and how fast you must, sometimes, get that shot off.
If possible stay out of brushy areas where fast shots are most often needed.
270
As some have said, a moderately powerful gun you have practiced with and can shoot well is a lot better than a more powerful gun you've probably shot less due to it's recoil.
Don't believe anyone has mentioned that head/brain shots are the only sure way to stop a charging grizzly. Of course not just in the head but in the brain. That's the shot to go for and a lot of guns will do for that. But, if you can handle the larger guns--if--and you miss the brain you're going to penetrate more and do more damage otherwise. Assuming long, heavy bullets. No matter what gun, always the proper bullets for grizzly or brown bears. For any game, of course.
The big reason for shooting them in the brain is they can be hit elsewhere and hit good, and with a very powerful gun, but still have the life in them to kill you before they die.
Lots of practice before a grizzly hunt would be a must for me. Hitting the brain with their head bobbing up and down as they come for you. Not easy, and especially so due to fear and how fast you must, sometimes, get that shot off.
If possible stay out of brushy areas where fast shots are most often needed.
270
That has always been a personal philosophy of mine, that the best weapon is one that can be deployed and used with a minimum of conscious thought necessary to fire the first, and then follow up shots. When you are rightfully distracted by a charging bear or armed assailant, you are occupied mentally.
This is why I will never, ever, advocate a semiauto as a nightstand gun. is the safety on? shell in the chamber? hammer back? A DA revolver is the only handgun you can pick out of the drawer, and fire defensively, without having to go through conscious decisions. (No, a loaded glock is not 100% certain to have a shell in the chamber. A loaded revolver will.) A serious threat before your eyes, unless you are thoroughly trained in stress fire situations, will always monopoize your thinking.
Of course, most people say I'm a complete idiot, because if a person is shooting in a pressure situation without thinking about his weapon, well, it's just stupid. I can see both sides. Either way, people will still make mistakes and die. Fumbling to rack a shell into a 12 gauge, struggling with a bolt to reload, or trying to jam a magazine into a .45 can get you killed. Hiking with a loaded rifle without safety on can also kill you. Every person has to make the decisions, and balance threats.
