What to rely on, while killing a grizzly

B

bjones870

New member
I'm probably going to move in to bear country, and would like your advice. I know bear attacks are unlikely, and probably will never happen. I'm
looking for advice of what rifle caliber, with decent shot placement (head, neck,shoulder) will do the most damage? I'm looking at the .308, but I'm thinking I'll need something bigger. If not a 12 gauge slug? Let me know please. Thanks!
 
Charging shot- .44 mag, 450 Marlin, or 12 gauge with 00 Buck.
hunting - shoulder or vitals shot out of a 300 win mag with 220gr partitions, 338 win mag or something similar with a 200gr bullet and a sectional density over .300. Grizzlies aren't that hard to take down. Shot placement is key and I would definitely look at magums. 300wsm or win mag will be the smallest I'd carry. I used a Browning short trac 300wsm with 200gr partitions and it hits em like a truck!! If I had to buy a purely Alaskan gun, I'd buy a 358 Norma mag. That'll send a 250 grain bullet almost 3000fps!! Good luck!! Definitely pack in a snub nosed 44mag for quick handling.
 
You're probably going to get people telling you that you don't need a big gun to kill a grizzly bear. That is true. But for self defense situations you want a weapon that will break that animal down and stop it while it is in a charge. Just think how much energy a thousand pound animal is going to have while charging you at something like 20-35 mph. Of course being able to shoot straight is the most important factor. I personally would not want to have anything less than a .375 H&H while in big bear country. I personally feel that a .308 is best left for black bears.
 
I live near grizzle country and go among them on a fairly regular basis. I have never had to kill one, but I have been close enough to a few to make me real nervous.

You question is a bit too narrow. If I am hunting in grizzly country I usually carry a 375H&H so I can reach out for long shots on elk. If I were only packing or guiding I think a semi-auto Benelli 12 ga or one of the FN Browning guns would be great. Maybe the very best protection gun made is an AR-15 in 50 Beowulf. A 458 SOCOM is nearly as good.

However, you must 1st make a decision to what you wan the gun to do. If it's strictly for protection and never for hunting, you don't need long rage capability. No bear is dangerous until it's quite close.
My favorite handgun is a Freedom Arms 6" 454 Casull loaded with 370 grain LBT bullets at top velocity, but such handguns need to be used enough to become very very good with them, and most people will not practice with a 454 enough to get that good. The thing that makes a revolver so good is that it can ALWAYS be with you, and you don't need to worry about being a few feet away from it. But handguns are not nearly as easy to use as long arms.

Anyway, to hit this ball back to your court, I'd ask you to consider the "mission statement" of the gun, and proceed from that point.
 
If you handload then you open up your options for a "defensive bear load" although factory 180 grain bullets are an ok option.

If you want to buy another rifle, then bigger is better in terms of sending bullets with more mass (and therefore more momentum) to penetrate deep. I have been toying with a lever action 454 Casull for a lightweight hard hitting carbine, but a 444 Marlin might be an even better choice.

Anyways, I wouldn't feel undergunned going into bear country with a 308 with some heavy pills in the magazine. Yes there are bigger and better rounds, but a if you can shoot that rifle well that is more important than caliber.

Jimro
 
For a charging grizzly, .308 will be fine, as long as you're firing it from a belt-fed M60.

Otherwise, a 12ga shotgun firing slugs, you really can't over gun with a 700 pound angry animal charging at 30mph and a 2-3 second reaction time.
 
I've never had to shoot a charging griz but I would not make buckshot or plain lead Forster type slugs my first choice. If you've shot many deer with either, you probably know why-lack of penetration. The soft lead slugs mush and flatten appreciably when hitting deer and even copper plated buckshot suffers from the same problem that small caliber muzzleloaders with round ball-low sectional density(weight to frontal area).
A hard lead slug like the Brenekke is a better option.
At close range, a .30 cal with proper bullets will likely produce a wound that will stop or turn a bear if the hit is in the shoulder, neck, or head. Still not guaranteed to save your hide. Most of the guides in big bear country go .338 and up.
I'm much better/faster at point shooting with a pump shotgun so that would be my choice if going among bears. The last time I went where meeting a griz was a possibility, I was packing a 44 loaded to the max I could comfortably handle with hard cast bullets and my partner carried the shotgun.
 
I have the impression that the OP is thinking about a bear attack when hiking or similar. He did not state where he might move, and so no idea if we are talking about blacks or grizzlys.

I would not want to carry a heavy rifle around when hiking. Not when a 12 ga with slugs are evidently effective, and the shotgun overall is easier to carry, lighter, and faster to get into action.

For hunting I would go with a .338 if I were buying a bear gun for grizzlys, but a .308 would be fine for blacks.

Jerry
 
12 gauge with slugs - Dixie Slugs are best and Brenneke Black Magic would work as well. Dixie DGS was designed for the big bears. OO buckshot is a poor choice and Dixie Tri-Ball would be far better. Consider that OO buck goes about 9" in wet newspaper and Dixie Tri-Ball will go 29"
 
A Marlin 1895SBL (or guide gun) in 45 70 loaded with Woodleigh 405 grain FN SN bullets. Alot of guys use them here for Water Buffalo so I think they would work on Grizzly.
 
I'd like to hear from someone who has shot lots of grizzlies - especially charging grizzlies.
I live in grizzly country but have not encountered one in the woods and I'd just as soon not, thank you very much.
For bear defense I'd like a 10ga mag shotgun with hard slugs and 00 buck. I think a face full of buck shot at less than 20 yards would discourage a bear.
My buddy Wayne, who lived in Canada and has killed two grizzlies (one with a .223!!), has an opinion about a .44mag handgun as an anti-grizzly defense gun - 'If charged by a grizzly and you have a .44 six-gun, shoot the bear five times and then save the last round for yourself. Either that or shoot your buddy in the foot'.

George
 
Shotguns are the best purely defensive gun.

The best approach I came across was working in the wood surveying.

The party chiefs choice was all double O buck with one slug. The idea was to rip the eyes and ears off and the slug to finish it.

Nothing is going to stop a charging grizzly in its tracks.

Passive yes, you can take one down with a 30-06 (308 would be a really bad choice regardless, once you **** it off then things get grim).

You also have to make the choice to play dead (best option in most cases).

Nothing works perfectly in all cases.
 
Today, 01:00 AM #5
Jimro
Senior Member

Join Date: October 18, 2006
Posts: 3,174
If you handload then you open up your options for a "defensive bear load" although factory 180 grain bullets are an ok option.

If you want to buy another rifle, then bigger is better in terms of sending bullets with more mass (and therefore more momentum) to penetrate deep. I have been toying with a lever action 454 Casull for a lightweight hard hitting carbine, but a 444 Marlin might be an even better choice.

Anyways, I wouldn't feel undergunned going into bear country with a 308 with some heavy pills in the magazine. Yes there are bigger and better rounds, but a if you can shoot that rifle well that is more important than caliber.

Jimro
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Wow, you are a BRAVE man to venture a .444 Marlin as enough for grizzly. LOL.

Thank you for the bit of sanity. The Marlin .444 as many have heard on TFL is my choice of a high powered large bore rifle with very modest recoil the way I have mine set up. I don't think I should try for the higher recoil of the 45-70 with my medical condition.

In fact, I took my Marlin .444 to the range with some of my friends yesterday and with my Skinner Peep Sights, I shot a 1 inch group at a hundred yards, albeit 3 inches low, it is set to go for bear defense with the right cartridge. I use Buffalo Bore 335 gr's that has the ability to penetrate through and through on a grizzly. The rest is shot placement. I consider the .444 the MINIMUM bear caliber, but it is what I can safely handle with my renal failure and my blood access in my arm which I must protect at all costs for my dialysis which I do at home on my own machine.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=156

If I did not have this medical condition, then I would certainly go to the 45-70 and put Garrett Hammerhead 540 gr bullets and mow down what ever comes at me without much thought if it will work or not. The fact is, they will work period if you are concerned about grizzly defense and have no medical reason that you can't handle higher recoil.

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570540tech.html

For hunting, read the many stories about grizzlies, they are one tough critter and no one should underestimate their power and ability to inflict serious damage quickly. How long does it take for a grizzly to kill a person? Just a few seconds. Take a look at an attack from a trained grizzly at Big Bear Lake CA. The attack lasted about 10 seconds and caused the trainer's nephew to die within a couple of minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcX8yVFGY5A

For hunting grizzly or grizzly defense, get the BIGGEST and BADDEST rifle you can safely and accurately shoot and then practice, practice and practice till it is an extension of your own body so to speak. Most outfitters in Alaska consider the .338 Win Mag the minimum caliber and prefer .375 H&H magnum or higher instead. Many Alaska guides carry the 45-70 with +P loads for back up and for going into brush after a wounded grizzly.

If you can't handle these, then the minimum in my mind is a .444 as I have or a 30-06 with 200 or 220 gr bullets. These are minimum bear calibers that most of the experts appear to agree is the starting point of grizzly bear defense and hunting. I would not go any smaller in caliber than these minimum cartridges.
 
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