What to do when you see someone pulling a NFA "dumbass"?
- Thread starter full.tang.halo
- Start date
It may not be a concern to you, but the person who has the gun likely is unaware of the law they are breaking. It IS your job as a supporter of the 2nd to educate people about firearms and that includes NFA. It isn't any of your business what they own, however the gov will make it their business if they find out.
Do you tell someone when they have a burned out headlight on their car and may not realize it? If they have a flat tire? If you hear their engine pinging? If you see that they have a visibly bent tie-rod? If they have their trailer hooked up incorrectly? Sure it's none of your business, but informing someone of a problem they may not be aware of is the responsible thing to do
If they do know and don't care, then just go about your business. You don't have to report them to the police, I don't.
I have no idea what "gat" is. Is it an SBR or short barreled shotgun - because that's what I was addressing.
If I see a gang banger look at me the wrong way, at the very least, I'll snap a pictutre of him, and there's a 50/50 chance I'll call the cops just to let him know "We're watching". I don't care for "gangs" and punks hanging around causing trouble. I have no problem getting in their faces and demand that they leave, if I think I have justification to do so.
I am a supporter of the 2nd Amendment. Although I myself adhear to all firearms laws, I consider the NFA unconstitutional. If I want to work for BATFE, I'd send in my application, go through the interview process and collect my paycheck for the services you seem to think I need to do for them for free.
When someone goes up to another person they don't know and says, for example "hey, buddy, did you know that rifle of yours looks to be 2"'s too short and you could be looking at some serious penalties" - that person has no idea whether you intend to turn him in, or where you're coming from.
If someone asks me about NFA laws, I'll gladly inform them of what I know to the best of my ability. But, I'm not a BATFE agent snooping around for what I consider to be technical violations of an absurd, inconsistant and unconstitutional law.
Having mechanical problems with a car isn't comparable to people violating laws. Here are a list of other laws that I don't inform people that they are breaking:
- Speed Limits (unless you're speeding through my neighborhood)
- Zoning violations
- watering restrictions
- riding ATV's or dirt bikes on rural public roads
- fishing or hunting without a license
- Drinking beer at public outdoor events
- Bikes with loud pipes
- women who happen to flash me randomly (I wish)
- people who have black boxes that steal HBO or whatever other paid TV
- folks who copy their friends CD's, computer programs, etc.
There's a whole slew of things that other people do that break some technical law that I could totally care less about. If our government thinks it's beneficial in some way to pay people tax payer's dollars to go around and sniff these kinds of criminals out and prosecute them, then about the only thing I can do about it is keep on voting for "shrink the government" advocates.
That's right, if you own a gun, you better know the laws. Unfortunately, it's the government's business to enforce stupid firearms laws that have no purpose whatsoever. It's not my business, and I have no intention of letting the government make it my business.
Willie Lowman
New member
Gat is very old slang for a gun. Typically a handgun. Gat is a term used by or associated with criminals that is around a century old.
freakintoguns
New member
+1 skans, i find the NFA and AWB to be highly unconstitutional. the gun grabbers retiritic about criminals haing these weapons is flawed, they still have them with the NFA and AWB because, OMG!, there criminals
4thPointofContact
Moderator
4thPointofContact said:
dogtown said:
Still haven't found the information I was looking for, but from memory someone asked the AFT which replied that to 'make safe' a Street Sweeper the magazine could be removed so that it would no longer have a 12-gauge chamber (which was what brings the 'Sweeper into DD territory and that the USAS could have the barrel removed to take it out to make it a non-DD. There was something about it still being registered somewhere in the system (fuzzy memory) though.
Parts kits for the USAS-12, sans barrel [means 'without' for you government school types] were available in Shotgun News for a while after the USAS was taken off the market. It was a shotgun, but without a 12-gauge barrel it wasn't a DD. I guess if someone were to make a USAS-12 in .410 then it would be a non-DD firearm. and quite useless, too.
I'm wondering what the BATF's position would be if someone had a USAS parts kit (without the barrel) and then wanted to make it a DD by finding a barrel on Gunbroker or some such?
(( Skans.... ever take a look at the receiver of your USAS to see if it has that thing I mentioned? ))
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Willie Lowman
New member
It is perfectly legal to build a DD on form 1.
There is a guy on UT selling a USAS barrel and piston.
There is a guy on UT selling a USAS barrel and piston.
During the Clinton AWB. I noticed a 11.5 with 5.5 pinned AR for $1000. Everone else was asking $1200-1500 for theirs. the seller told me it had some Full Auto parts in it. I passed on the deal and told the show security staff. For the next 6 months that gun sat on the same dealers table, I again told the show staff. It had to be a sting if our show promoters didn't do any thing about it. Our promoters don't want another black eye. Our VP of our club got busted for having illegal machine's in his home. He is/was doing Fed jail time for it.
Skans, I think you are missing my point, confused, or both.
From what I am reading from your post, you are saying you would rather a young gun owner get a felony conviction and a decade in prison because you don't want to be bothered to educate them so they could correct the problem before the BATFE found them?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
I agree with you on both.
It is not the job of the BATFE to educate people about guns laws, it is their job to ENFORCE those gun laws.
Are you saying that you are afraid that that person is going to kill you and bury your body behind the berm? Not trying to be obtuse, but that is the only conclusion I can draw from that statement.
and you apparently are not going to lift a finger to ensure that people are aware of the laws. We were all young and stupid at one point. You should have seen my first attempt at 922r compliance.
Nobody is asking you to have the ATF hot-line number on speed dial and turn everyone in, just educate people when you see potential violations.
From what I am reading from your post, you are saying you would rather a young gun owner get a felony conviction and a decade in prison because you don't want to be bothered to educate them so they could correct the problem before the BATFE found them?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
No, not at all. What I'm trying to say is that someone whom I don't know might take my education as a warning to "fix the problem, or else...." The "or else being that I might just decide to go to the local PD or BATFE officer and make mention of it. Not that I ever would, but a complete stranger doesn't know that. Who knows, maybe the guy knows it's completely illegal and he likes it that way and doesn't want others poking their noses into his business.
What would you do if you encountered a situation where some guy had a rifle with a barrel 3" too short (without registration); you approached him on your own accord and educated him on the particular NFA law he's violating; and the guy says "yeah, I know - you're not going to tell anyone about it are ya?" Now you know the guy is knowingly breaking the law - are you going to argue with him about it? Turn him in? Scare him by telling him he's going to be doing time in Club Fed for 10 years? Or, simply say "that's cool, good luck with that."?
Do you see the problem? I simply choose not to look for problems with other people's firearms.
However, if I am seriously considering purchasing a firearm, then I will ask whatever questions I need to to make sure that the gun hasn't been screwed with and is 100% legal. But, that's a completely different situation. A while back some guy tried to sell me a Cobray Streetsweeper for what most would consider a great price. I asked him if it was registered on a Form 1, and he pretended not to know what I was talking about. I just told him "No F-ng way" - not interested. Because the guy didn't ask me something like "what's wrong, Buddy" or "what's a Form 1", I highly suspect that he knew and wasn't simply "uneducated". As far as I see it, that's where my responsiblity ended - walking away form a gun that I suspected wasn't right.
No, I certainly don't want to see that happen. Look, if the person with an illegal firearm was a friend or someone whom I thought genuinely didn't know he might be violating the law and is completely oblivious to the fact that he is hanging his pee-pee out there to be wacked off I would probably say something. I don't mean to make it sound so absolute that I'd never discuss NFA laws with a possible violator under certain conditions.
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No, not at all. What I'm trying to say is that someone whom I don't know might take my education as a warning to "fix the problem, or else...." The "or else being that I might just decide to go to the local PD or BATFE officer and make mention of it. Not that I ever would, but a complete stranger doesn't know that. Who knows, maybe the guy knows it's completely illegal and he likes it that way and doesn't want others poking their noses into his business.
What would you do if you encountered a situation where some guy had a rifle with a barrel 3" too short (without registration); you approached him on your own accord and educated him on the particular NFA law he's violating; and the guy says "yeah, I know - you're not going to tell anyone about it are ya?" Now you know the guy is knowingly breaking the law - are you going to argue with him about it? Turn him in? Scare him by telling him he's going to be doing time in Club Fed for 10 years? Or, simply say "that's cool, good luck with that."?
Do you see the problem? I simply choose not to look for problems with other people's firearms.
However, if I am seriously considering purchasing a firearm, then I will ask whatever questions I need to to make sure that the gun hasn't been screwed with and is 100% legal. But, that's a completely different situation. Just recently some guy tried to sell me a Cobray Streetsweeper for what most would consider a great price. I asked him if it was registered on a Form 1, and he pretended not to know what I was talking about. I just told him "No F-ng way" - not interested. Because the guy didn't ask me something like "what's wrong, Buddy" or "what's a Form 1", I highly suspect that he knew and wasn't simply "uneducated". As far as I see it, that's where my responsiblity ended - walking away form a gun that I suspected wasn't right.
i guess it depends on the person selling as i have seen the glock stocks for sale with guns atached and questioned the sbr legality and was atacked by the guy selling them so just went on. same with short 10" ar-15 uppers being sold with lowers (told to just wait to assemble them till the paperwork came back, just keep them in the safe seperate till the stamp comes back) questioned intent and was told i dont work for the atf so i dont know the law. on the other side seen a kid with his dad selling a colt ar-15 with a a2 upper (14" or less). asked and they just got the upper and put it on the lower to sell. talked about the sbr stamp and did not know about it. pulled it apart and sold the upper and lower seperate and got more than he was selling the rifle for. guess it depend on the seller
MYOB
That's the bottom line here, as has been pointed out a couple of times already. If someone is trying to sell you a suspected illegal weapon, sure, if you are the RO and someone has a sawed off on your range, sure. If the guy on the range two lanes down from you is firing an SBR, not so much. Unless of course he invites you to try out his cool SBR. Those that go looking for trouble, are very likely to find trouble.
That's the bottom line here, as has been pointed out a couple of times already. If someone is trying to sell you a suspected illegal weapon, sure, if you are the RO and someone has a sawed off on your range, sure. If the guy on the range two lanes down from you is firing an SBR, not so much. Unless of course he invites you to try out his cool SBR. Those that go looking for trouble, are very likely to find trouble.
4thPointofContact
Moderator
Discretion
It's the same principle law enforcement officers use to justify issuing or not issuing a ticket, either to other drivers or drivers who have badges.
I knew someone who had a M1 Thompson that 'daddy done brought back from the war'. I knew it was unregistered. I also knew there was no way for them to register it after the fact. I guess I'm in collusion with them to disobey the law, but I told them to just keep it under the bed and not display it in public (telling them not to use it for criminal purposes didn't cross my mind, it wasn't something they were likely to do).
I had another person who cut a Ruger 10/22 down to pistol size
, less than 16 on the barrel and probably under overall length as well. I told them that the safest course of action was to Immediately separate the barrel from the receiver and to file ATF paperwork if they wanted to stay out of prison. Didn't to a lot of good, their reply was "All I'm going to do is use it for 'coon hunting, I don't need any paperwork for That. Besides it's a rifle and that's more powerful than a .22 pistol."
It's the same principle law enforcement officers use to justify issuing or not issuing a ticket, either to other drivers or drivers who have badges.
I knew someone who had a M1 Thompson that 'daddy done brought back from the war'. I knew it was unregistered. I also knew there was no way for them to register it after the fact. I guess I'm in collusion with them to disobey the law, but I told them to just keep it under the bed and not display it in public (telling them not to use it for criminal purposes didn't cross my mind, it wasn't something they were likely to do).
I had another person who cut a Ruger 10/22 down to pistol size
, less than 16 on the barrel and probably under overall length as well. I told them that the safest course of action was to Immediately separate the barrel from the receiver and to file ATF paperwork if they wanted to stay out of prison. Didn't to a lot of good, their reply was "All I'm going to do is use it for 'coon hunting, I don't need any paperwork for That. Besides it's a rifle and that's more powerful than a .22 pistol."had one at a show(carry in) and had a ar-15 w/12" barrel. claimed he got it at the last show that way. informed him of the law and after looking at the inside it was built from a m-16 parts kit on a ar-15 lower (cant remember make). after talking i got a email and sent him doc's on useable parts from m-16's. the thanked me and told me it was a private seller with no info. he sold the upper and got another and a lpk to fix the lower too. some people will listen and others dont care till the atfe knocks on the door.
Mighta been a store bought Charger?
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/22Charger/index.html
Brent