I've used this site to find a couple of the guns. Fun place if you like obscure stuff.
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/
What the heck
- Thread starter Ozzieman
- Start date
dakota.potts got that one
342 Beretta model 1918 submachine gun 9X19mm Glisenti 900 RPM Italian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_M1918
The Beretta Model 1918 was a submachine gun that entered service in 1918 with the Italian armed forces. Designed initially as a semi-automatic rifle, the weapon came with an overhead inserted magazine, an unconventional design based on the simplicity of allowing a spent round to be replaced using only gravity. The gun was made from half of a Villar-Perosa aircraft submachine gun,[1] and as such it can be considered the first submachine gun issued to and used by the Italian armed forces, and is possibly the first SMG used as a general-issue combat weapon.
Another variant was the Model 1918/30 with the magazine inserted underneath and came with a bayonet.[2] The Model 1918/30 was also manufactured in Argentina by Hafdasa as the C-1, which formed the basis of the Ballester-Riguard submachine gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9mm_Glisenti
900 RPM 9mm Glisenti
History and usage[edit]
The 9mm Glisenti was developed for the Italian Glisenti Model 1910 pistol,[2] first used in World War I. It was also used in other Italian weapons such as the Beretta Model 1915 and 1923 pistols, the OVP and Beretta Model 1918 submachine guns, and the Villar-Perosa aircraft submachine gun. The Medusa M47 revolver can also fire 9mm Glisenti ammunition along with many other .38, .357 Magnum or 9 mm cartridges.[3]
Specifications[edit]
The cartridge was based on the German 9×19mm Parabellum, but is significantly less powerful, as it is also meant to be used in blowback pistols, which are easier and less expensive to manufacture than locked breech firearms.
The cartridge is now obsolete, but Fiocchi Munizioni occasionally produces batches.[1]
342 Beretta model 1918 submachine gun 9X19mm Glisenti 900 RPM Italian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_M1918
The Beretta Model 1918 was a submachine gun that entered service in 1918 with the Italian armed forces. Designed initially as a semi-automatic rifle, the weapon came with an overhead inserted magazine, an unconventional design based on the simplicity of allowing a spent round to be replaced using only gravity. The gun was made from half of a Villar-Perosa aircraft submachine gun,[1] and as such it can be considered the first submachine gun issued to and used by the Italian armed forces, and is possibly the first SMG used as a general-issue combat weapon.
Another variant was the Model 1918/30 with the magazine inserted underneath and came with a bayonet.[2] The Model 1918/30 was also manufactured in Argentina by Hafdasa as the C-1, which formed the basis of the Ballester-Riguard submachine gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9mm_Glisenti
900 RPM 9mm Glisenti
History and usage[edit]
The 9mm Glisenti was developed for the Italian Glisenti Model 1910 pistol,[2] first used in World War I. It was also used in other Italian weapons such as the Beretta Model 1915 and 1923 pistols, the OVP and Beretta Model 1918 submachine guns, and the Villar-Perosa aircraft submachine gun. The Medusa M47 revolver can also fire 9mm Glisenti ammunition along with many other .38, .357 Magnum or 9 mm cartridges.[3]
Specifications[edit]
The cartridge was based on the German 9×19mm Parabellum, but is significantly less powerful, as it is also meant to be used in blowback pistols, which are easier and less expensive to manufacture than locked breech firearms.
The cartridge is now obsolete, but Fiocchi Munizioni occasionally produces batches.[1]
Mike Irwin
Staff
Yep, Glisenti Model 1910.
Years ago a guy came into the gunshop where I was working and to buy some 9mm ammo for the range. He had his "grandpa's old pistol that he brought back from the war."
Thinking Luger or Walther, I sold him the ammo, then asked to see the pistol.
Yep. Glisenti Model 1910. Had to explain to him very carefully that it should NEVER be shot with standard 9mm ammo, and that the ammo it used isn't available.
Told him his only real option was to reload reduced velocity ammo for it.
Years ago a guy came into the gunshop where I was working and to buy some 9mm ammo for the range. He had his "grandpa's old pistol that he brought back from the war."
Thinking Luger or Walther, I sold him the ammo, then asked to see the pistol.
Yep. Glisenti Model 1910. Had to explain to him very carefully that it should NEVER be shot with standard 9mm ammo, and that the ammo it used isn't available.
Told him his only real option was to reload reduced velocity ammo for it.
I didn't recognize that gun, really thought that one would last a while.
53 Glisenti Model 1910
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glisenti_Model_1910
The Glisenti Model 1910 was a 9mm calibre semi-automatic service pistol produced by the Italian company Societa Siderugica Glisenti.[1] It was put in production in 1910 to replace the aging Bodeo Model 1889. It saw extensive service in World War I and World War II with the Italian Army. The Model 1910 has a complex and weak firing system which mandates that the pistol ought to use weaker cartridges than pistols of comparable caliber.
Development[edit]
The creation of a service pistol to supplant the Bodeo Model 1889 began to be rumored in late 1903.[2] The pistol was designed by Italian inventor Bethel Abiel Revelli.[3] Revelli spent multiple years developing a prototype before patenting his design to Societa Siderugica Glisenti of Turin.[2] The Glisenti company acquired the machinery to begin production from the United Kingdom in 1906 but sold the manufacturing rights to Metallurgica Brescia gia Tempini.[2]
Original Design[edit]
The Glisenti Model 1910 was originally designed to fire a 7.65×22mm bottle-neck cartridge.[2] The pistol being known as the Model 1906 began production in 1908.[2] The Model 1906 failed to impress the Italian Army and was requested to fire a round similar to the German 9×19mm Parabellum.[2] The redesign was named the Model 1910 and was formally adopted by the Italian Army. To reduce recoil[2] and because of the pistol's weak design,[1] the Model 1910 had to fire the 9mm Glisenti. The 9mm Glisenti is structurally similar to the 9×19mm Parabellum but has a reduced velocity.[2]
Mechanics[edit]
The Model 1910 fires from a locked breech. When fired, the barrel and bolt recoil together. The barrel will stop in a rearward position. The bolt, unlocking itself, will then continue forward, stripping the chamber and driving the barrel forward again. After this action, a wedge will rise from the frame and lock the entire frame back into position.[1] This firing system wasn't strong and had to fire cartridges weaker than the comparable 9×19 Parabellum caliber.[1] The screw at the front of the frame, when undone will allow the removal of a plate on the left side of the pistol granting access to the moving parts within the pistol.[1] This design was not stiff enough to sufficiently support the left side of the barrel extension and after prolonged firing, the left plate was prone to loosening.[4] The only safety on the pistol was a small lever set in front of the grip.[4]
53 Glisenti Model 1910
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glisenti_Model_1910
The Glisenti Model 1910 was a 9mm calibre semi-automatic service pistol produced by the Italian company Societa Siderugica Glisenti.[1] It was put in production in 1910 to replace the aging Bodeo Model 1889. It saw extensive service in World War I and World War II with the Italian Army. The Model 1910 has a complex and weak firing system which mandates that the pistol ought to use weaker cartridges than pistols of comparable caliber.
Development[edit]
The creation of a service pistol to supplant the Bodeo Model 1889 began to be rumored in late 1903.[2] The pistol was designed by Italian inventor Bethel Abiel Revelli.[3] Revelli spent multiple years developing a prototype before patenting his design to Societa Siderugica Glisenti of Turin.[2] The Glisenti company acquired the machinery to begin production from the United Kingdom in 1906 but sold the manufacturing rights to Metallurgica Brescia gia Tempini.[2]
Original Design[edit]
The Glisenti Model 1910 was originally designed to fire a 7.65×22mm bottle-neck cartridge.[2] The pistol being known as the Model 1906 began production in 1908.[2] The Model 1906 failed to impress the Italian Army and was requested to fire a round similar to the German 9×19mm Parabellum.[2] The redesign was named the Model 1910 and was formally adopted by the Italian Army. To reduce recoil[2] and because of the pistol's weak design,[1] the Model 1910 had to fire the 9mm Glisenti. The 9mm Glisenti is structurally similar to the 9×19mm Parabellum but has a reduced velocity.[2]
Mechanics[edit]
The Model 1910 fires from a locked breech. When fired, the barrel and bolt recoil together. The barrel will stop in a rearward position. The bolt, unlocking itself, will then continue forward, stripping the chamber and driving the barrel forward again. After this action, a wedge will rise from the frame and lock the entire frame back into position.[1] This firing system wasn't strong and had to fire cartridges weaker than the comparable 9×19 Parabellum caliber.[1] The screw at the front of the frame, when undone will allow the removal of a plate on the left side of the pistol granting access to the moving parts within the pistol.[1] This design was not stiff enough to sufficiently support the left side of the barrel extension and after prolonged firing, the left plate was prone to loosening.[4] The only safety on the pistol was a small lever set in front of the grip.[4]
Good one sgms.
did you ever shoot it?
1 Velo-dog Revolver de Poche
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velo-dog
Velo-dog
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Velo-Dog (also known as a Revolver de Poche[1]) was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Charles-François Galand in the late 19th century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks.[2] The name is a compound word composed of "velocipede" and "dog".
Surviving examples vary considerably in appearance, but have certain features in common. The hammer is shrouded to avoid its snagging on clothing, so the weapon is double action only. All have short barrels and originally fired the 5.75 mm (.22 calibre) Velo-dog cartridge, although many of the Velo-Dogs produced after 1900 accepted .22 LR or .25 ACP rounds. Another feature on many late models Velo-Dogs is the lack of a trigger guard, and a trigger that folds into the body of the weapon when not in use. For the more humane, there were cartridges loaded with cayenne pepper or dust,[4] or which had bullets made from wax, wood or cork.[1]
The original revolver uses the Galand company's proprietary 5.75mm Velo-dog cartridge, a centrefire 5.5 mm (nominally 5.75) cartridge slightly less powerful than the 22 Long Rifle, using a jacketed bullet. The cartridge is, or was until very recently, still made by Fiocchi.[5]
Because of the low energy of the round, a suicide case was recorded where a woman shot herself twice in the temple with a .25 (6.35 mm) Velo-dog revolver before succumbing.[6]
In popular culture[edit]
• A Velo-dog makes a minor appearance as an assassin's concealable pistol in the novel The Death of Achilles, one of Boris Akunin's Erast Fandorin series.[7]
did you ever shoot it?
1 Velo-dog Revolver de Poche
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velo-dog
Velo-dog
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Velo-Dog (also known as a Revolver de Poche[1]) was a pocket revolver originally created in France by Charles-François Galand in the late 19th century as a defense for cyclists against dog attacks.[2] The name is a compound word composed of "velocipede" and "dog".
Surviving examples vary considerably in appearance, but have certain features in common. The hammer is shrouded to avoid its snagging on clothing, so the weapon is double action only. All have short barrels and originally fired the 5.75 mm (.22 calibre) Velo-dog cartridge, although many of the Velo-Dogs produced after 1900 accepted .22 LR or .25 ACP rounds. Another feature on many late models Velo-Dogs is the lack of a trigger guard, and a trigger that folds into the body of the weapon when not in use. For the more humane, there were cartridges loaded with cayenne pepper or dust,[4] or which had bullets made from wax, wood or cork.[1]
The original revolver uses the Galand company's proprietary 5.75mm Velo-dog cartridge, a centrefire 5.5 mm (nominally 5.75) cartridge slightly less powerful than the 22 Long Rifle, using a jacketed bullet. The cartridge is, or was until very recently, still made by Fiocchi.[5]
Because of the low energy of the round, a suicide case was recorded where a woman shot herself twice in the temple with a .25 (6.35 mm) Velo-dog revolver before succumbing.[6]
In popular culture[edit]
• A Velo-dog makes a minor appearance as an assassin's concealable pistol in the novel The Death of Achilles, one of Boris Akunin's Erast Fandorin series.[7]
Buzzcook Congrats
2 Mossberg Brownie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_Brownie
The Mossberg Brownie is a four-barreled, .22 Long Rifle pistol, similar to a derringer or pepperbox, produced by O.F. Mossberg & Sons from 1920 to 1932.[2][3] The Brownie is based on an earlier pistol patented and licensed to the Shattuck Company by Oscar Mossberg.[4]
Design[edit]
The pistol has a double-action trigger and a rotating firing pin. Each pull of the trigger cocks and releases the hammer as well as rotating the firing pin to fire each chamber in succession. A top-mounted latch released the barrel assembly to open forward. Mossberg provided a piece of bent sheet metal to extract spent casings.[4]
From 1986 to 1987 Advantage Arms produced the model 422 with many features of the Brownie.[2] The Advantage Arms design was also produced in a .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire chambering and models featured an internal extractor.
Cobray also produced an odd revolver called the "Pocket Pal" that featured the same break-action, layout, and hammer system of the Brownie. Cobray combined this with a unique twin-barrel, dual-caliber system. Two "zig-zag" revolving cylinders were provided, one in .22 LR and the other in .380 ACP. The same hammer fired either the .22 caliber in the bottom barrel or the .380 in the top depending on which cylinder was installed.[5]
2 Mossberg Brownie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossberg_Brownie
The Mossberg Brownie is a four-barreled, .22 Long Rifle pistol, similar to a derringer or pepperbox, produced by O.F. Mossberg & Sons from 1920 to 1932.[2][3] The Brownie is based on an earlier pistol patented and licensed to the Shattuck Company by Oscar Mossberg.[4]
Design[edit]
The pistol has a double-action trigger and a rotating firing pin. Each pull of the trigger cocks and releases the hammer as well as rotating the firing pin to fire each chamber in succession. A top-mounted latch released the barrel assembly to open forward. Mossberg provided a piece of bent sheet metal to extract spent casings.[4]
From 1986 to 1987 Advantage Arms produced the model 422 with many features of the Brownie.[2] The Advantage Arms design was also produced in a .22 Winchester Magnum Rimfire chambering and models featured an internal extractor.
Cobray also produced an odd revolver called the "Pocket Pal" that featured the same break-action, layout, and hammer system of the Brownie. Cobray combined this with a unique twin-barrel, dual-caliber system. Two "zig-zag" revolving cylinders were provided, one in .22 LR and the other in .380 ACP. The same hammer fired either the .22 caliber in the bottom barrel or the .380 in the top depending on which cylinder was installed.[5]
dakota.potts
New member
I had to use some google-fu on this one and it ended up not being my first instinct (an underhammer percussion revolver).
It's a Remington Zig-Zag Derringer. The cam slots cut on the cylinder should have been the give away for me but I was stuck thinking LeMat for some reason
It's a Remington Zig-Zag Derringer. The cam slots cut on the cylinder should have been the give away for me but I was stuck thinking LeMat for some reason
Ulrice by two minutes your the winner
3 Remington Zig-Zag Derringer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Zig-Zag_Derringer
The Remington Zig-Zag Derringer - or "Pepper Box", originally termed "Elliot's Pocket Revolver", was made 1861-1862 with fewer than 1,000 manufactured.[1]
Design[edit]
A 6 shot 22 rimfire short, Remington's first firearm designed for metallic cartridge. Smith & Wesson patented the rim fire cartridge on August 8, 1854 patent number 11496. The patent was reissued in 1860. Six-Shot 3-3/16 barrel cluster with ZigZag grooves at the breech end working with diamond-shaped key extending in the interior from the ring trigger to provide the revolving mechanism of the barrels.[2]
The Remington Zig-Zag Derringer is a double action derringer with a concealed hammer which is contained within the grip frame. The lever behind the ring is lifted to return the ring without firing and pushed down to release the barrel group to allow loading through a port in the breech of the frame. The grips are made of hard rubber ( Gutta percha ) and ivory being the only known other original. Blue or Silver finish (not nickel) or combination of both. Blue with silver frame or blue being most common and silver barrels more scarce. Screws can enter from either the left or right, mainspring set screw, none, or hole without threads present, throughout the serial number distribution with no apparent continuity. Serial number is on the frame under left grip.
Extensive study has identified approximately 140 known examples, being that this model has a quite delicate mechanism and was replaced by the Remington-Elliot Derringer "New Repeating Pistol" even before all were assembled, the survival rate of this model is expected to be quite low.[3]
3 Remington Zig-Zag Derringer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Zig-Zag_Derringer
The Remington Zig-Zag Derringer - or "Pepper Box", originally termed "Elliot's Pocket Revolver", was made 1861-1862 with fewer than 1,000 manufactured.[1]
Design[edit]
A 6 shot 22 rimfire short, Remington's first firearm designed for metallic cartridge. Smith & Wesson patented the rim fire cartridge on August 8, 1854 patent number 11496. The patent was reissued in 1860. Six-Shot 3-3/16 barrel cluster with ZigZag grooves at the breech end working with diamond-shaped key extending in the interior from the ring trigger to provide the revolving mechanism of the barrels.[2]
The Remington Zig-Zag Derringer is a double action derringer with a concealed hammer which is contained within the grip frame. The lever behind the ring is lifted to return the ring without firing and pushed down to release the barrel group to allow loading through a port in the breech of the frame. The grips are made of hard rubber ( Gutta percha ) and ivory being the only known other original. Blue or Silver finish (not nickel) or combination of both. Blue with silver frame or blue being most common and silver barrels more scarce. Screws can enter from either the left or right, mainspring set screw, none, or hole without threads present, throughout the serial number distribution with no apparent continuity. Serial number is on the frame under left grip.
Extensive study has identified approximately 140 known examples, being that this model has a quite delicate mechanism and was replaced by the Remington-Elliot Derringer "New Repeating Pistol" even before all were assembled, the survival rate of this model is expected to be quite low.[3]