What happened to Muzzle Loaders?

I do not muzzle load, but I really would like to. I think that a traditional rifle would be great fun. I have always wanted a kit where I could finish the rifle myself.
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You should give it a try. It's loads of fun. Despite what some people think. You really don't lose much in the way of power or accuracy with a black powder gun. The only difference is you only have one shot.

Years ago I was reading a article that Hank Willians jr wrote about shooting Black powder vs smokless in a 45-70 or 45 something like 70 or 110. It was a good read. He shot a life size bufflo made from a steel plate at I think 900 yards. He could hit the bufflo most of the time with Black powder loads and about 40% with smokless. Like I said it was a long time ago. But I do remember how the BP shot better. He even let his wife shoot the target and she hit it on her first shot with the BP.

I know of a guy that shoots BP competition. I went to range with him a few times. I can't out shoot the guy at 50 yards with my modern hand guns. he shoots BP hand guns as well. I always thought I was a fair shot with a hand gun!

I have Ruger Vaquero stainless in 45 colt that I load with BP. I use 25grs of 3F BP and I will tell what. It is not a wimpy load. I seems to have just as much power as smokless loads. The BP just makes a mess of my gun. Before I get to 50 rds I need to clean the gun. I'm pretty sure thats why we use smokless today :D
 
You know if it was'nt for those annimal activests our hunting
seasons would probbly be a lot different . But i really enjoy ML season
I hunt with both at the same time really like patched ball but that
scope is handy early and late in the day and a second shot is
good to
 
A .45 cal. chunk a lead leaving the barrel at near 375 H&H speeds.No thanks.I'll pass.

By the way,most state regs I've read prohibit smokeless powder in ML.It sounds cool but kinda pointless.

Speaking of poachers and ML,I still haven't seen a repeating ML.You know,the one when you're hunting in ML season and in the distance you hear boom,boom,boom,boom,silence. :D
 
By the way,most state regs I've read prohibit smokeless powder in ML.It sounds cool but kinda pointless.
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Really? Last night I was going through state regs for ML season. I got through about 12 states before I got tired and went to bed. Not one state prohibited smokeless powder. I'll get through all 50 states eventually.
 
My use of the word "most" might be a stretch but a fast google search turned up 8 that said smokeless was a no go.

Mississippi was a strange one.In the 'primitive season", they don't allow smokeless in a muzzleloder but you can use it in a breech loader designed pre-1900.I think I just heard Butch hit the floor. :D
 
My use of the word "most" might be a stretch but a fast google search turned up 8 that said smokeless was a no go.
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Oh I didn't think you were being untruthful. I was just suprised, because as I stated I was just doing that sort of thing and hadn't stumbled across the "no smokeless" states.

Going through the ones I'd reviewed, I thought I was seeing pattern, but who knows the view on smokeless powder may be divided 50/50 through out the states.
 
Having been a dedicated bowhunter since I was a teenager, I've heard the same arguement of divisiveness between the compound shooters and the traditionalist longbow/recurve shooters. It has even extended to having both the traditionalists and compund shooters ganging up on the crossbow shooters. The truth is, the effective in-the-field range of both hand held and crossbows are similar.
What I've noticed about the bickering between the disciplines, is that the anti-hunter/animal rights PETA trash has been out to ban all hunting.
The different disciplines have been quick to point out the challenges of their particular sport in order placate the anti's at the expense of one particular discipline over another, compromising away their rights in hopes that the antis leave them alone.
Of course the proper response would be for hunters of all disciplines to band together to fight the antis rather than turning on each other and diminishing their (our) numbers even more.
Kinda sounds like the plaid-wearing Elmers who turn on their EBR shooting counterparts diminishing all of our rights dosen't it? :(
The muzzleloading debate is no different. It's a non-issue. Look at who the real enemy is and then tell me if the equipment one chooses to hunt with really makes a difference in the end. :(
 
Of course the proper response would be for hunters of all disciplines to band together to fight the antis rather than turning on each other and diminishing their (our) numbers even more.
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+1

Charles
 
I think I just heard Butch hit the floor.
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You sure did! :D


Of course the proper response would be for hunters of all disciplines to band together to fight the antis rather than turning on each other and diminishing their (our) numbers even more.
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We are all united against the anti's - but that doesn't mean we can't also disagree amongst ourselves on how best to pursue the sport.

The muzzleloading debate is no different. It's a non-issue. Look at who the real enemy is and then tell me if the equipment one chooses to hunt with really makes a difference in the end.
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With that attitude, why bother having bow and ML seasons at all? Just whatever whenever should be good enough? The real enemy is the hunter who does nothing to improve the sport - the real enemy is the slob hunter.

Also, the term "slob hunter" I reserve for poachers, and hunters who, in general, treat animals with no respect. I do not think this term should be used for people who use technology to hunt, and fill their legally purchased tags.
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My use of slob hunter is reserved for the hunters who trash the sport, in this case by using advanced technology during primitive hunting seasons. Of course there are many kinds of slob hunters, the road hunters, the guy who leaves trash behind, etc....

For me hunting is a journey not a destination.
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Precisely, and the quality of the journey is far more important that the eventual destination.
 
Uhmmm........butch,

What someone else uses to pursue a game animal has nothing to do with what I choose to use, nor does it take away from my enjoyment of it.

My take on hunting is a little different than your's too. Living in bush Alaska, hunting is more of a necessity rather than a sport. That doesen't mean disobey hunting laws and regulations. It simply means when the freezer needs filled, I can't afford to handicap myself by adding to the challenge. I need to take advantage of and make use of the technology available as long as it falls within the boundries of the law.
Due to safety concerns of human sprawl, bowhunting and muzzleloading only areas are a necessity to effective wildlife management. I support these and the longer seasons that are usually a part of them, and participate when I can.
However, the configuration of the bow or muzzleloader is immaterial and the arguements concerning them are elitist.
The plaid wearing Elmer with the in-line has as much right to be out there during the ML season as the guy in buckskins and a flintlock. The same goes for the bowhunters.
 
It seems sto me there is a satisfaction in setting a challenge for oneself and meeting it. BUT: It's up to each individual to set his own challenges.

To a great extent I agree with Butch50's overall philosophy about how to hunt. What I don't do is worry about what other people do.

I started hunting and shooting over sixty years ago. I expect myself to have certain levels of ability beyond some youngun who's just getting started. So, if I'm gonna believe I'm better than some other guy, I think I oughta stay quiet about it. Give him a period of time and he may well come to outdo anything I ever managed. "Records were made to be broken."

While hunting over a feeder or using a bunch of high-tech stuff isn't my style, why should I--or anyone--raise a ruckus about those who do? Like I said, everyone gets to set his own level of challenge.

Butch50 spoke of the progression which comes with age and experience. I think the same sort of thing happens with the level of challenge folks set for themselves, generally. You get to a point where, '"Hey, this is too easy!" and try something different...

Doesn't matter. As long as folks enjoy and respect the outdoors and the critters, it's all Just Huntin'.

Art
 
What someone else uses to pursue a game animal has nothing to do with what I choose to use, nor does it take away from my enjoyment of it.
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That is pretty much the crux of the disagreement - I do care what other hunters do. I have seen too many slippery slopes before, and this is another one. Given time hunting will become something completely unrecognizable and without challenge, if we keep allowing technology to run without restraint. Recall that the ML and Bow seasons were designed around the equipment at the time, and even now the equipment is becoming unrecognizable. 10 years from now, if no limits are established, there will be a lot of deer killing happening out there in the woods, but it won't be hunting as we know it.

Doesn't matter. As long as folks enjoy and respect the outdoors and the critters, it's all Just Huntin'.
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See above, same comment really.
 
butch50 said:
I have seen too many slippery slopes before...
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Could you be more melodramatic? Never mind, don't answer that.

That is pretty much the crux of the disagreement - I do care what other hunters do.
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We're well aware of that, butch. You care to the point of insulting plenty of people on this, and another thread.

What do you hope to accomplish? Are you on an "awareness campaign" to make people aware of what an "abomination" the sport of hunting has become due to the "slippery slope" upon which it now resides, which is a directly related to the "maniacal frenzy" brought upon by the “specialized corporations”?

Hunt your way. Everyone else will hunt his or her way.

You've no more right to tell anyone how they should hunt or what equipment they should use, than any anti-gunner has the right to tell you what type of weapons you should own (if any) based on their opinion of what's right and wrong.
 
Gee Trip - Are you personally offended? :confused: Did I push some of your own buttons?

I have a low opinion of some hunters. I do indeed. You know what, I am right to have that opinion of them too.
 
impact the answer to your question is in his very next sentence:

Given time hunting will become something completely unrecognizable and without challenge, if we keep allowing technology to run without restraint.
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Unrecognizable! Every year there are more and more restrictions on hunting and this started a long time ago. Yah lets go back to those 4 bore shotguns that the market hunters used to kill many ducks with one shot.(No more Labrador ducks because of that). When I was a kid I made good money trapping Muskrat and Coon. You don't see that much anymore. keep every Victor trap you find. They are becoming collectables.

On a good note! Where I hunt has been a one buck county for many years. This is the second year I could take two doe. So I guess all that Hight tech stuff really does not make a big difference.
 
On a good note! Where I hunt has been a one buck county for many years. This is the second year I could take two doe. So I guess all that Hight tech stuff really does not make a big difference.
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Excellent! I don't believe that the technology we have at hand today is going to make a real difference in the overall number of deer killed. It may someday. Right now though the technology is rapidly, and I mean rapidly, accelerating to a point where the concept of traditional ML is going to be lost. I am advocating that the seasons that were distintcly set aside for MLs, as they were known at the time, should remain set aside for MLs that are traditional.

People who use what is basically centerfire technology (and scopes if they are not visually impaired) disguised as a ML to hunt with during ML season are violating the spirit of the ML season.
 
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