What happened to Muzzle Loaders?

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butch50

New member
Looking at the new Cabella's catalog I am disgusted to see what is happenning to traditional muzzle loader rifles. They began evolving into super high technology blackpowder monstrosities after the black powder deer seasons became prevalent. The original intent of having a muzzle loader season was to create a primitive hunting season, one that was to be more sporting, or in other words the intent was that it would be more difficult to kill deer. The hunter would be limited to shots of about 100 yards or less and not be able to reload rapidly. This was an opportunity to experience hunting as our forefathers knew it.

These new rifles are legal loophole rifles - they are using every modern technique that can be dreamt of to create rifles that are as close to centerfire performance and rapid loading as they can get and still squeak inside the primitive season :barf:
 
I had to look twice at the ones that looked like bolt action rifles, I couldn't figure out what htey were at first.

I don't hunt, not my thing, but I always thought that traditional muzzleloading was pretty fascinating. Now, I dunno, it seems cheap.

On the other hand, I don't need to hunt for food, I suppose that if you shoot to eat, anything's acceptable. WEll, almost anything.. -shrug-
 
Many states don't allow hunting with the modern ML rifles. Inline is allowed in WA only if the piece uses traditional cal and cap is exposed. So we are kinda middle-of-the-road here. I agree with the idea of ML being use of the traditional guns, whether flintlock or caplock. I DON'T like the modern looking weapons.

Pops
 
I have zero problems with them hunting during regular rifle season with them. Hey, whatever floats your boat.

But to compare a scoped Knight inline with an iron-sighted Lyman Great Plains and try to say that they're both of the same cloth is silliness. One is a new slick accurized take-off of the tradition that the other embraces faithfully.
 
I could admire someone using one of those modern loop hole muzzle loaders during regular season in all honesty. But certainly not for using one in muzzle loading season.

I am of course a traditionalist of the old old school. You know, honor and all that old stuff.....
 
Its' a sign...

of the times.
Traditionalist don't count for much anaymore, the faster better bigger crowd want to be satisfied NOW.
In the lower third on Michigan where is shotgun or ML, the modern POS, rules for now you can take the 250+yards shot without worring about tracking closer as a traditionalist has to.

I think Pa., has it right nothing newer thatn 1830 technology.
 
...archery has been suffering from the same disease for a long time....
Click to expand...

100% right - take a look at these new multi cam/levered aircraft cable strung optical sighted mechanical arrow launching machines and call them bows? About the only thing they have in common with a bow is ...well....ummm.. :confused: Absolutely Nothing?
 
But cleaning's half the fun!

Heck, I've even got a black stain on my shoe from the last time! :D

Ok... More on topic... I think we need a side-locking mechanism law where your firearm must be ignited via some form of side-hammer... Be it flint, cap, or 209 primer.

Also, some no-optics laws... Force guys to use iron sights, even if peeps.

That would pretty-well handle all those 'I can't beleive it's Black Powder!' type arms.

Wolfe.
 
Sigh... No special BP law at all in Wyo. Shoot with a rifle of any kind and you're gonna hunt in the regular season. I think there is only one area with bp reg and that the area type, not a season - can't use any other firearm there at all...

Still like to break out the ol' flinter at times though!

(Wonder if these modern "cheat" guns would make the implimintation of such a BP season more difficult? Bet they would - more to argue over anyway! :( )
 
..which is why I always shot an honest recurve or longbow..not interested in shooting a compound(handicap)bow...one day when I try a blackpowder muzzle-loader i want to use a genuine muzzle-loader, not some gadget-impregnated muzzle loading ray gun thing..ick! Let there be sportsman and not gadget-drunkards!
 
just curious as to how long you all's general firearms / shotgun season is. where i live we have 2 weeks. i also don't have any private land i get to hunt on. if i'm in the woods (national forest is all i got) maybe once a week during any particular season, i wanna be able to drop anything I want to. this means if i'm in a treestand and can't get any closer to the deer, then i need somethin that will reach out and touch 'em. so rail on me if you want to, but right now i'm a failry new hunter who would rather learn and be confident in my abilities with new equipment that is better than I am, than to struggle and get frustrated / quit hunting b/c i have to use ancient equipment. i tell you what hunting a feeder, using dogs, and doing drives is "cheatin" to me. wheres the skill in runnin all the deer to one person. nope. i spend as much time scouting and preparing for the season as the next guy, but when that chance comes, I know i have a better "handicap" with better equipent.
also, I plan on moving up from a compound to a recurve someday, but like i said i'm startin with the most forgiving equipment.
 
Most hunters evolve through a series of stages:

1. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill quantity over quality

2. Kill less and hunt more, pass up a few shots that are low percentage

3. Kill a lot less and trophy hunt, pass up most everything

4. Rarely kill anything except the occasional meat for the pot and really big trophies, they find the process of hunting and associating with their buddies to the the true pleasure..

If you follow the norm, then with experience you will prefer the challenging hunt over the more certain hunt.....leaving the woods without a deer won't be the least bit disappointing, and unless you missed out on a real trophy, you will come to appreciate leaving the woods without a deer.

Just some general philosophical BS to try to explain that it is the hunting, not the killing, that is the thing...and that is where using traditional primitive weapons comes in, the limitations that come with them are what improves the hunting experience....
 
i agree with you and i have already let a considerable number of deer pass, but right now i'm still a newbie. you guys are unequivocally condemning anyone who uses modern technology just b/c you may be at different stage in the "hunting experience" than some of the rest of us. if you want to get truely primative and back to the way it originally was, try throwing rocks at them or jumping on the back of a deer with a knife in hand. to you "primative" is a long bow with wooden(?) arrows or an old flintlock muzzleloader. to me being within 100 yards of a deer with only a single shot is still pretty primitive. if most hunters follow the trends you speak of, then it seems like it would be natural for them to change over to more primitive weapons as experience increases. you gotta crawl before you can walk, and right now advanced technology makes it easier to get up and running.

so say what you want, but over the next several weeks i'll be patterning deer, setting up my stand, and hoping to take a shooter buck with one of those newfangled single cam, high speed bows so that i can make a clean fair shot on a deer. you wanna talk BS we can go into crossbows that are becoming popular everywhere. i'll also be takin my super-duper TC Encore in the woods come muzzle-loader. but here's the real question, how many of ya'll will be takin semi's or high-capacity bolt actions into the woods during general firearms? I'll be using a Ruger GP100 and a single shot TC Encore 30-06
 
Hit a nerve did I? :)

Hunt any way you want to, long as it's legal. Don't automatically expect respect from anyone, in fact don't ask for it either. You'll be much happier that way.
 
..at what point does the sport disappear?...we could design guns that automatically aim themselves..but then how could we admire someone who took a good shot and hit his target?....we could design something that automatically track's a game's exact location...but then where would the skill of a good hunter come in?....get the picture? the more gadgets that do our hunting for us, the less skill we truly have...that is my point...and I want to be proud of my skill and marksmanship not of my dependance on gadgets...
 
The demise of "primitive weapons season" here in PA is a simple matter of economics. The PA Game Commission has bills to pay, and selling a limited number of archery and smoke pole permits to the traditional hunters didn't pay the bills. Today's gadget may not seem as sporting, but the Game Commission can sell hundreds of thousands of permits to folks who wouldn't have given a nickel for one a few years ago.
 
Since most of us do not hunt for food (we can pick stuff up at the local grocery) it's a luxury to use the older technology.

It's the natural progression of things... We develop better, more efficient ways to hunt. Archers, ML hunters, centerfire rifle hunters, and then there's those handgun fellas - where do they fit in? :D Each type has new technology each year, and in some ways they each use the same new stuff...

Do any of you use high-tech camo with Scent-Lok and all that carbon filled stuff? Or high-tech doe scents and calls? Or hunt over decoy's? Or automated deer feeders? Or use motion detection cameras to see what big deer are in the area?...etc.

It's all the same... same as using that "high-tech" muzzleloader...
 
look in the end it comes down to scouting and shot placement. whether I use a saboted round or an old .50 ball out of a hex barrel really doesn't make a difference. I spent my time before the season, set myself up in the right place, held my gun steady, pulled the trigger, and tracked the deer. i'm not able to get a 300 yard shot where I hunt, so what difference does it make on the range of the gun? I bought a TC encore so i could get another rifle cheaply.i have a 209X.50 and a 30-06 for about $600. hard to beat. so like i said if you wanna talk primitive go back to jumpin on a deers back and sliting his throat with a knife. but since we're all using projectiles, what difference does it make? I still have to aim and shoot.

but out of all ya'll who are puttin down the "new" equipment, how many of ya'll have hunted deer drives? how many of you have run dogs? how many have hunted with a guide? how many use a 7mm or 300 ultra mag for deer? by ya'lls standards everyone should be using a 30-30 (which i love and have taken many deer with) or nothing at all. how many have leupold scopes of your rifles? how many are thinkin about crossbows? how many hunt from a tree stand? how many use salt licks or deer cane? how many use trail cameras?

the skill is in the setup and the shot. if you cna't execute those 2 integral pieces of hunting all the technology in the world doesn't make a difference. I personally know how to get it done, i just take equpiment that feels better and is more reliable in th ewoods with me...

and trip, I just bought $50 worth of core-lokt .357 bullets today... can't wait to drop a doe with the beauty
 
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