What Do You Think Of This?

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Funny, Thomas, I was thinking the EXACT same thing about this line from you...

"If you were smart enough to buy 50 guns but weren't smart enough to have a big stack of ammo set back thats on you. Maybe you should have bought 25 guns and 25,000 rounds of ammo instead."

In fact, with all my 100+ guns, I actually did get caught somewhat short time time around, specifically on 9mm practice ammo.

I have some, but not a lot.

And in the last 2 years I've bought 2 or 3 new 9mms.

And that's my fault. It's not some super secret Biden/Deep State cabal to deprive me of my gun rights, it's not the local gun shops being SOBs and depriving me of my rights of God Fearin' and Gun Totin...

Blah blah blah.
 
"If you were smart enough to buy 50 guns but weren't smart enough to have a big stack of ammo set back thats on you. Maybe you should have bought 25 guns and 25,000 rounds of ammo instead."

That's absurd. It's like saying if someone bought a car he should have been "smart enough" to stash away a few hundred gallons of gas in preparation of a future fuel shortage.

It's up to any store owner to run his business as he sees fit.

It's up to me where and how I spend my money.
 
And on the other hand, what if you've already bought 50+ firearms from this LGS, and they won't sell you any ammo unless you buy another firearm?
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I haven't bought 50+ firearms in total, but I have bought probably a dozen from my local range/shop, sold a couple though him on consignment, and had him do another dozen or more transfers. He won't sell me ammo and I understand why. No harm, no foul. He needs ammo for the rental customers to shoot, and for people who are buying their first gun.

I get it.
 
"That's absurd. It's like saying if someone bought a car he should have been "smart enough" to stash away a few hundred gallons of gas in preparation of a future fuel shortage."

I take it you're not old enough to remember the Arab oil embargos of the 1970s...

For years after those two very, very painful episodes people were doing EXACTLY THAT.

They were installing bulk tanks and keeping them filled.

How many ammo shortages do you need to live through before you start building up serviceable stores against such events?

This should be your second or third... at least.
 
"I take it you're not old enough to remember the Arab oil embargos of the 1970s...

For years after those two very, very painful episodes people were doing EXACTLY THAT."

I remember very well...around 1974 the last digit on your license plate, even or odd, dictated which calendar days you could buy gas. Even numbered plates on even numbered calendar days, and odd numbered plates on odd numbered calendar days. That was also around the time they had to change the pumps to accommodate gas prices in excess of $1 per gallon.

Sure, some people stored some gas, but I didn't know any. I'd guess it was far less than 1% of auto owners.

Where did I say I don't have any ammo?

I said I think it's a lame tactic to require all ammo sales to be accompanied by a firearm purchase. I also said that it's the store owner's call. They need to try to stay in business with a reduced amount of merchandise. I can see their perspective, but that doesn't mean I have to support and/or play their game.
 
"I can see their perspective, but that doesn't mean I have to support and/or play their game."

So, basically, I don't give a flying fig about new gun owners being able to get ammo. I should go to the top of the heap, and those store owners have the obligation to pander to ME!

Gotcha.

And people wonder why small gunshops have been virtually run out of existence, to be replaced with cheaper-to-buy places like Walmart (doesn't sell ammo anymore), Dick's Sporting Goods (doesn't sell guns or ammo anymore), Sports Authority (out of business)...

With one of Joe Biden's wet election dreams being to outlaw all mail order ammo sales seems to me like you're gleefully cutting your own throat...

But, whatever.
 
I'm not looking for another gun, but if I was a new shooter / first time gun buyer in 2020 and I entered a shop that had a pistol, but no ammo, I would be inclined to shop elsewhere. I have to also back the LGS owner. Several up my way are doing the same thing.
 
"If you were smart enough to buy 50 guns but weren't smart enough to have a big stack of ammo set back thats on you. Maybe you should have bought 25 guns and 25,000 rounds of ammo instead."

That's absurd. It's like saying if someone bought a car he should have been "smart enough" to stash away a few hundred gallons of gas in preparation of a future fuel shortage.
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No its not absurd. And just so you know I practice what I preach. I have sold off around 20 guns in the last couple of years. But I still have north of 60 firearms on hand. Here are some of the totals of what I have on hand.

30,000 22 rounds
5,500 22 mag rounds
4,500 223 rounds and enough stuff to load another 5,000
3,700 7.62x39
2,500 9mm and enough components to load at least 5,000 more not counting lead bullet loading
over 2,000 38 special
1,500+ 357
1,000+ 30-30
250 243
200 30-06
1,200 32 long/32 mag
1,400 pounds of lead
25,000 assorted primers
48 pounds smokeless powder
38 pounds of black powder
26 bullet molds
8,000 #11 caps for black powder guns
thousands of various brass cases

Those rounds listed are what I have loaded now. I have enough bullets cast up on hand to load thousands of more rounds. Its nice. Panics have no affect on me.

And I have this because of the lesson I learned in 1996 when the rumor went around that primers would be made with a 6 month shelf life. All the old primers were bought up. The price more than doubled overnight. I said never again would I be caught short of ammo and supplies. And so far I never have.
 
I need more lead, only have about 300 pounds.

I bought a brick or so of .22 every payday that it was on the shelves for quite some time to make sure I was unlikely to run out when another panic hit.

Wanted more 22WMR but not always on the shelves in the flavor I wanted. So that will go through bolt action and single action revolver instead of the auto.
 
I guess there must be a fine line between hoarding and "stocking up" ammunition and reloading components for the next ten years that is too blurry for me to discern. People get criticized for being too stupid for not having been prepared for the latest election year "crisis" and are called hoarders when they do. Best policy imo is for everyone to mind their own business and let others do what they do without fear of reprisal or second guessing-and for me, that includes buyers and sellers alike.
 
"So, basically, I don't give a flying fig about new gun owners being able to get ammo. I should go to the top of the heap, and those store owners have the obligation to pander to ME!

Gotcha."

No, I don't think you do. That's not what I said at all.

I'll make two points.

#1.
I said the store owners can run their businesses as they see fit. And I'll spend my money how and where I see fit. That means if I don't want to buy another gun in order to buy some ammo, I won't. No big deal. The LGS isn't obligated to do what I want, and I didn't imply that they are. OTOH, I'm under no obligation to buy a gun from them so I can buy ammo. I can buy ammo somewhere else, or not. I have to obey the store rules when I'm in the store, but I'm not chained to their wall. I can walk out with no ammo, and I can go visit Rock City. I have options.

#2.
Re: "...don't give a flying fig about new gun owners being able to get ammo."
From the OP: “No ammo sales unless you purchase a firearm. Period.”
Where does the store's sign/s say anything about "new?"
I'll tell you - nowhere.
And what does "new" mean?
New gun?
or "New" gun owner?
Doesn't matter, because "new" isn't on the sign.
From the sign (again): "...unless you purchase a firearm." The store doesn't specify "new" firearm, it could be a used firearm. And the sign doesn't even specify that the ammo has to fit the firearm you buy.
You wanna buy ammo? You have to buy a firearm. "Period." That's what it says.

And in case anyone is thinking "new gun owners" means first time gun owners, how is someone supposed to prove he has never owned a gun?
Still doesn't matter, because "new" isn't on the sign.
 
If you were smart enough to buy 50 guns but weren't smart enough to have a big stack of ammo set back thats on you. Maybe you should have bought 25 guns and 25,000 rounds of ammo instead.
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YES!! Or maybe even 5 guns and 90,000 rounds of ammo.

If the goal is to shoot, then having a lot of ammo is way more important than having a lot of guns.
I guess there must be a fine line between hoarding and "stocking up" ammunition and reloading components for the next ten years that is too blurry for me to discern.
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It's actually a very significant difference.

Hoarders make shortages worse by buying during shortages with no intent to use and/or buying quantities beyond what they can actually use. They take ammo off the shelves that others could use and they do so even though they don't need it themselves.

People who stock up ammo during times of plenty actually ALLEVIATE shortages because they don't have to buy when ammo is hard to find. They can even act as small-scale suppliers to friends and family during shortages, again, making the impact of shortages somewhat less.
#2.
Re: "...don't give a flying fig about new gun owners being able to get ammo."
From the OP: “No ammo sales unless you purchase a firearm. Period.”
Where does the store's sign/s say anything about "new?"
I'll tell you - nowhere.
And what does "new" mean?
New gun?
or "New" gun owner?
Doesn't matter, because "new" isn't on the sign.
From the sign (again): "...unless you purchase a firearm." The store doesn't specify "new" firearm, it could be a used firearm. And the sign doesn't even specify that the ammo has to fit the firearm you buy.
You wanna buy ammo? You have to buy a firearm. "Period." That's what it says.

And in case anyone is thinking "new gun owners" means first time gun owners, how is someone supposed to prove he has never owned a gun?
Still doesn't matter, because "new" isn't on the sign.
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Nobody said that ONLY new owners would benefit.

But new owners are certainly one group who would be able to buy ammo at the shop if they buy a gun. It's also easy to understand why they are the group of gun buyers who are most likely to not already have ammo on hand and who would therefore be most benefited by the ability to buy some with their purchase.

In other words, it's quite obvious how the policy will benefit new owners, and even benefit them more than it does other buyers even if it's not designed so that it's exclusive to new buyers.
 
One of the benefits of owning your own business is you can set the terms on which you wish to carry out that business.

The likelihood is that this controversial move by this shop is a reasoned one.

As has been pointed out, we don't know the logic behind that reasoning.

Perhaps there wasn't any, but given the current social climate I can well imagine that shops need to make tough decisions on how to stay afloat, and meet the needs of as many people as possible.

It might also be that this shop is unable to shift the guns in stock because potential buyers come in, ask about a gun, ask about ammo, find the latter is absent and move on.

This means the shop has stock sitting on the shelves and it's not shifting.

That's a lethal blow to a business in the long run. Naturally, they have to come up with a way of moving those goods without making a loss. Maybe this was their solution.
 
"In other words, it's quite obvious how the policy will benefit new owners, and even benefit them more than it does other buyers even if it's not designed so that it's exclusive to new buyers."

The policy is designed to benefit the store's revenue. It's just that simple.

All ammo sales will be accompanied by a firearm sale. "Period."

The store is low on ammo, and selling the extra firearms will bring in more money.

They are there to make money and stay in business.
 
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