What do you think about this rifle? (358 Win Custom)

Thats an interesting theory JMR.. the 358 is plenty more powerful then the 308 and not much less powerful then the 300 WSM. You are deffinately right on the model being the best or among for the 300 WSM but I think I made out very well. Handloads will be very nice and pack a punch. I dont care about the Winchester I traded and feel I made out BECAUSE I NEVER plan to sell it. And even so, it has a competition aftermarket match grade barrel WITH VERY GOOD iron sites, probably the best you can buy or up there!

I get it, you dont like the 358.. lol this rifle just seems more for me then the 300 WSM because my last one didnt even have a scope and nothing was customized now I have a complete ready to fire rifle. I have ZERO money to put into a gun right now so I have a real ready to fire rifle now WITH AMMO. Im happy with the trade.

If my father knew about how the 2001 is worth a lot then that would explain the trade but you have to find the nitch crowd that wants that rifle first. Either way my dad gifted me both rifles and I made out regardless. Now thats a good father in my book. It wasnt like I couldnt say no to the trade he ASKED for for christmas. I told him about the 2001 and he acted like he didnt even know about the factory switch and QC issues. I informed him of how good that rifle was. He plans to sell it and told me have the better rifle to keep in the family. My father is 65, has been a hunter all his life, was in Vietnam, and is a gunsmith and jack of all trades at the same firearms shop hes been at since getting out of Vietnam. He handloads as well and will make me some very POTENT 358 rounds he said. I plan on having him teach me the trade when he does instead of learning by books.
 
I think you can resize a .308 case with the .358 die, and load a 158 gr xtp bullet to 2500 for plinking for less money than a piece of 300 wsm brass will cost, IMHO. The .356 win I shoot is practically the same round. I bet Dad already knows this. No need for boutique prices on ammo.
 
jmr40,

For some reason people think that they need to move up in caliber to shoot heavy bullets. They make 200-220 gr bullets in 30 caliber, some available as heavy as 250 gr. It is not bullet weight that determines performance on bigger game as much as bullet length. A 200gr bullet loaded in a 308 @ 2550 fps or in a 300 WSM @ 2950 fps is a MUCH longer bullet than a 200gr bullet loaded in a 358 @ 2600 fps. It'll shoot flatter, hit harder at long range, and penetrate deeper at any range. Even when fired at 308 speeds.
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It won't "hit harder" in terms of momentum, at least not at hunting ranges where you have any business using either a 358 or 308 Win.

Lets look at bullet momentum.

358 caliber 250gr bullet at 2250 fps, 80.375 ft-lb/s momentum. SD 0.279

308 caliber 200gr bullet at 2550 fps, 72.875 ft-lbs/s momentum. SD 0.301

Even though the smaller diameter bullet has a higher sectional density it carries less momentum because of less mass. In actual tissue, if you hit where you aimed either bullet will kill anything in North America.

The 358 is just as cheap to shoot as a 308 Win, if you handload using bullets you cast. If you don't, and buy factory ammo, then the 308 Win obviously wins. The key difference is that I would rather hunt big game with cast bullets in the 358 Win instead of hunting with cast bullets in a 308 Win.

Jimro
 
Hornady makes what looks like a custom 200 gr silver tip im not sure if thats what it is but it sure looks like one. I have 99 rounds of it. Either way ill be learning to reload.

Does anybody know start up costs involved for reloading?
 
Does anybody know start up costs involved for reloading?
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It's a trap!

A complete Lee starting kit costs you about $100 on sale. And six months later you stare at the $1,000 of stuff on your bench and ask yourself "HOW???"
 
I'm sure that the .358 cartridge is a fine round for most big game animals throughout the world. But it failed in the market place of firearm buyers. So have other good middle-bore cartridges such as the .356 and 350 Remington magnum. It appears that the .338 Federal is destined to the same fate. This is a mystery to me.

Jack
 
Jack O'Connor,

I've given up trying to figure out which cartridges will survive the American market, and which will fall by the wayside....

The old 9x57 Mauser round was widely recognized as a very hunting round "for the pot" in Africa. Not suitable for dangerous game, but completely adequate for pretty much everything else. It is almost completely forgotten today.

When the original Jack O'Connor wanted a hard hitting, low deflection, woods cartridge, he re-invented the wheel when he proposed necking up a 7x57 to accept a .338 caliber bullet. http://www.chuckhawks.com/338_OConnor.htm

For some reason Americans have always loved our 30 caliber bores. And while there is more ballistic advantage to the 6.5 or 7mm bores for long range shooting, and a terminal ballistics advantage for 8mm, .338, and 35 caliber bullets it seems that the only .338 that made commercial success over the long haul was the "kick the snot out of you" 338 Win Mag, and the only 35 to gain a cult following was the 35 Whelen. Between the 338 Win Mag and 35 Whelen, I'd take the Whelen pretty much every time.

But, reboring Springfields and 1917 Enfields to 35 Cal was a popular option back in the day. As was reaming out a Mauser to 8mm-06, but the Whelen made the transition to commercial status, and the 8mm-06 didn't.

The 358 Win has an aweful lot going for it, and as long as the 7.62x51 is a NATO standard cartridge handloaders will have plentiful brass to neck up and reload, and that goes for the 338 Fed too. Of course the 30-06 is no longer readily available as surplus, but it has developed such a user base that it will never go away either...

Jimro
 
My father was in Vietnam and then has worked at the same gun shop as a gunsmith etc and does so to this very day. I trust my fathers sound advice on firearms and am so glad he raised me the way he did.
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Smart young man, and from one Vietnam vet to another tell your father I said welcome home and thanks for his service to our country.

As for your trade, although I'm not a big fan of Ruger rifles I do believe you got a nice one and made a good trade, congratulations.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
I wouldn't change the gun. The smaller 35 Rem was a standard in the east for a very long time for deer ,black bear. The 358 is kind of a 35rem+P. Suitable for anything in NA including moose , elk , and even make a brown bear change it's mind. Good loads with premium bullets make it even better. 10 rd mags may not be permitted in some states.
You have a winner !
 
Michigans pretty good with gun laws in comparison to commiefornia. Our 2nd term Republican governor just today may sign something making it easier to get your cpl. There's 30 round ARs on the shelf in stores and 19 + 1 round handguns. Im sure im fine legally, for now atleast.
 
A former Marine buddy whos a photographer will be taking some pro shots of it when hes in Michigan next. Ill update this thread if its open.
 
Its a fine cartridge A buddy has one built on a Mex Mauser.Fun to shoot!Just be realistic about range.You might chech with the tech folks at your bullet mfgr.Ask what the lower limit of bullet performance velocity at impact is.Look to th e tables for what range your .358 will have the velocity to make that bullet work for you.Then sneak up on them till you are that close.I'd expect maybe 250 yds or so,just a guess.I don't know about you,but that's when a guys juices get up and he gets all quivery like a bird dog going on point.

FWIW,brother used to have an M-70 in .358 Norma.It made a pretty good small game rifle....Loadedwith .357/358 handgun bullets and some Unique.

Now,I sure believe in you doing things your way....but you did ask for feedback.
IMO,that scope looks crackerjack to compliment the long range capability of that 300 WSM with no scope.IMO,that .358 would be a lot handier with less scope.
Generally a .358 is not used for prairie dogs,crows,or bench rest.Its usually for big game.And,generally I'd say about 250 yds would be max range.For big game hunting,generally,about 1x magnification per 100 yds is adequate for big game shot placement.You might find that rifle is a handier,more balanced package with a 2.5x,or 3x,or 4x fixed power scope.Yes,you can get 1.5 to 5x or 1.75 to 6x,but I'd respond Why?
If budget is an issue,look to E-bay.A Leupold with a Gold Ring on it would be an option,asLeupolds warranty would still cover.There are Denver Redfields,Lyman AllAmericans,Weavers,etc and you might get away with $100 or so.

Nice Rifle!!
 
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I wont buy a Leupold their Quality Control has hit the sewers. Zeiss is a MUCH better company. German engineered I believe. Anyway ill only be reaching out at 200 yds MAX.. im not trying to take a long sniper shot here. Just long enough and based off my research the 358 is a VERY competent round at up to 200 yds, so im happy. I love these Iron Sites I think more then the scope. I would like to upgrade the scope to a better Zeiss one down the road I feel it would be more up to snuff for this grade of rifle (not that its the greatest rifle the world has ever scene, but its competition worthy) . The scope is just a budget scope and hard to beat for the money at that.
 
I've always liked this little article about the 358 Win...

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/358_wcf.htm

I love it when people talk about cartridges "unsuitable for long range" or "unsuitable for tactical use" and forget that we still have folks shooting black powder long range.

The 358 Win can toss a 225gr Sierra Gameking pushed to 2,600 fps (hodgdon's data for IMR3031) will stay supersonic out to 800 yards, and outside the transonic region to 650 yards.

The very tactical chic Mk262 Mod1 load duplicates the 358 Win performance, hits the transonic region at 650 yards, and goes subsonic just past 800 yards.

How that doesn't qualify as "tactical" is beyond me, especially when the 358 Win load still has over 1000 ft/lbs of energy at the 600 yard mark, which is generally accepted level for ethically taking big game. That's also over 150 ft/lbs more energy at 600 than an M80 ball equivalent load from the ever most popular tactical cartridge of all time, the 308 Winchester...

Jimro
 
Jimro,I did not read all the posts,maybe I missed something.
To qualify my comments on the range guesstimate I made,I was not talking about "tactical".While I suppose any gun may have to do in a pinch,I do not keep my frame of reference on "tactical".And I was not evaluating tactical parameters.The foot lbs of energy is useful to a point,it suggests the projectile has the energy to penetrate sufficiently.Transonic/subsonic,yes,that all matters for bullet stability..targets to sniping,.but hunting?
IMO,regardless of the cartridge designation on the headstamp,Sierra knows pretty well what velocity at the game animal will allow their bullet to expand and perform as designed for a clean,merciful kill.And Nosler can tell you the same for a Ballistic tip.That number is often around 1900 to 2000 fps,but it is worthwhile to check to see if the bullet mfgr had a tougher or looser bullet in mind.
I did not check charts or software,I put a seat of the pants estimate of of 250 yds on it.I also pointed out it was an estimate.
While I do not own one,I am a fan of the .358.

I do believe in respecting preferences,and,I do think iron sights and a .358 are not a bad match for someone who can see.
And,if someone wants a Nightforce/Schmidt Bender/US Optics 34 mm tube 8.5 to 32x TMR/mil click scope with 30 minute slope bases on their 358,that is fine with me.Enjoy.You know what is best for you.

For myself,I still have faith in a Leupold FX or VX3 or better.Its OK if someone disagrees.And,for how I would enjoy using a .358,2 1/2 to 4x will do nicely.But everybody else can do what makes them happy,its not my gun.
The OP did ask for feedback.
 
Here's a better pic of my Custom Ruger Gunsight Scout stock.

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