Wendy's Employee Kills Robber
- Thread starter BarryLee
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Double Naught Spy
New member
I have to be honest with you on this. The goal of my life isn't to determine what goes on my tombstone.
Maybe you would prefer "He died stupidly working at Wendy's."
Some of y'all think it was Dasher's obligation (moral, public, whatever) to get the license number on the car. Do you also think it is his obligation to try to get the license number at any cost including possibly losing his life? The ironic thing here is that even if he would have gotten the license number, he would have no way of knowing the the license plate on the car was the plate that belonged on that car or if the car was in any way tied to the robbers.
There is nothing wrong with doing what is right, but there is no reason you have to do what is right in the manner that causes you the greatest peril.
Wendy's has a lot of windows. Dasher likely could have gotten the license number from the inside of the building and hence sparing himself the danger of getting caught out in the open and beng forced into a battle with the bad guys.
Maybe if Dasher had first looked out a window, he would have seen that the robbers did not have a getaway car at the Wendy's. They took off from the store on foot and heading east toward Johnny Mercer Boulevard. At the time of the shooting, the robber that was killed wasn't even on Wendy's property.
http://savannahnow.com/news/2012-01-01/police-id-alleged-wendys-robber
Maybe he didn't care naught about the license plate number...
Maybe he chose to engage these criminals to place them under citizen's arrest.
Had he tried this inside the store during the robbery, the co-workers would have been endangered.
They made a bad choice and forced him to use lethal force.
Let me also clarify... I do not feel ANYONE has or had an obligation to act... That is not for me to decide... There are LEO's that wouldn't have acted...
What is for me to decide is what I am obligated to do... And obligated isn't very often. Usually I have options and I am obligated to sift through those options real fast and make a decision which option I will use.
Brent
Maybe he chose to engage these criminals to place them under citizen's arrest.
Had he tried this inside the store during the robbery, the co-workers would have been endangered.
They made a bad choice and forced him to use lethal force.
Let me also clarify... I do not feel ANYONE has or had an obligation to act... That is not for me to decide... There are LEO's that wouldn't have acted...
What is for me to decide is what I am obligated to do... And obligated isn't very often. Usually I have options and I am obligated to sift through those options real fast and make a decision which option I will use.
Brent
DNS, there are three different arguments in play: Tactical, legal, and moral.
Tactically, following the robbers outside, for any reason, was risky, and probably not something most people should try.
Legally, following the robbers with the intention of identifying their getaway vehicle or route would be lawful anywhere in the US. Following the robbers with the intention of stopping violent felons who have committed crimes in one's presence, because they pose a threat to society, is lawful in some US jurisdictions (I believe GA is one of those, and armed robbers would qualify). Following the robbers with the intention of recovering property would not be legal in most of the US. Following the robbers with revenge in mind would be illegal throughout the US. SO, there is at least one legal course of action, if not two, that could have justified limited pursuit in Georgia.
Morally, I see nothing at all wrong with pursuing for identification or detention purposes; further, I see nothing wrong with engaging, should the robber attempt a pro-active assault or armed resistance - which he apparently did.
Conclusion: While I wouldn't recommend the course of action Dasher followed for most people, it doesn't bother me in the least that he did what he did.
Tactically, following the robbers outside, for any reason, was risky, and probably not something most people should try.
Legally, following the robbers with the intention of identifying their getaway vehicle or route would be lawful anywhere in the US. Following the robbers with the intention of stopping violent felons who have committed crimes in one's presence, because they pose a threat to society, is lawful in some US jurisdictions (I believe GA is one of those, and armed robbers would qualify). Following the robbers with the intention of recovering property would not be legal in most of the US. Following the robbers with revenge in mind would be illegal throughout the US. SO, there is at least one legal course of action, if not two, that could have justified limited pursuit in Georgia.
Morally, I see nothing at all wrong with pursuing for identification or detention purposes; further, I see nothing wrong with engaging, should the robber attempt a pro-active assault or armed resistance - which he apparently did.
Conclusion: While I wouldn't recommend the course of action Dasher followed for most people, it doesn't bother me in the least that he did what he did.
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True, Warren v. D.C. said, and Gonzales v. Castle Rock affirmed that they don't have a duty to protect any individual.
If the public is paying them to enforce the law and arrest those who break it, then they have a duty to do just that. To not do so when they have the opportunity to do so is "nonfeasance".
If the public is paying them to enforce the law and arrest those who break it, then they have a duty to do just that. To not do so when they have the opportunity to do so is "nonfeasance".
I had mentioned spree robbers significantly upping the odds in a given area. Here's a link to an article about the guys I'd mentioned:
http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2011/12/same-armed-robbers-suspected-in-10-holdups-in-south-kc-raytown.html
I was a bit off, though - it's not 3 chicken places, it's 4 Church's locations. Not sure what the other six were.
http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/2011/12/same-armed-robbers-suspected-in-10-holdups-in-south-kc-raytown.html
I was a bit off, though - it's not 3 chicken places, it's 4 Church's locations. Not sure what the other six were.
Someone (probably many someones) saw them, and nobody is coming forward. This is due to the "No Snitches" code, unless I miss my guess...... when Citizens stop doing what they should do to help keep the peace, and the Police Refer to them as "Civilians" (Making them what? Military?) ..... I ask you to refer to the Peelian Principles and tell me that KC, or at least that part of it, is headed for Detroit status. Either you have a moral,functioning free civil society or you have managed anarchy. There are financial incentives for some to maintain the latter.
Evil will triumph so long as good men do nothing to oppose it.
motorhead0922
New member
I had an occasion last night to realize how difficult it is to be a good witness. I actually saw a traffic accident while sitting at the intersection waiting for the light to turn green. A car was broadsided by another. We pulled off to the side and my wife was fumbling through her purse in the dark car looking for her cell phone. I had mine out of my pocket so I handed it to her and she started the 911 while I got out and ran to the vehicles.
Just about all I thought about was that it was a bad wreck and people were undoubtedly injured. I had a half-second thought about whether there were any hot-heads involved, since I was carrying. As I approached the cars, I realized I didn't know which was which. Both ended up in different positions because of the impact, and I couldn't see the damage on either from my angle. One was white and one was red, and I had no clue which one pulled in front of the other. All I was thinking about was the probable injuries, which, thank God, were minor.
It all happened in a split second. I've thought about it and I still don't know who had the right-of-way.
It is infinitely better to have a perp being held than to try to figure out who he was, where he went, what he was wearing, etc, etc. The police must pull their hair out trying to sort out what has happened when all they have is a robbery victim.
Just sayin'.
Just about all I thought about was that it was a bad wreck and people were undoubtedly injured. I had a half-second thought about whether there were any hot-heads involved, since I was carrying. As I approached the cars, I realized I didn't know which was which. Both ended up in different positions because of the impact, and I couldn't see the damage on either from my angle. One was white and one was red, and I had no clue which one pulled in front of the other. All I was thinking about was the probable injuries, which, thank God, were minor.
It all happened in a split second. I've thought about it and I still don't know who had the right-of-way.
It is infinitely better to have a perp being held than to try to figure out who he was, where he went, what he was wearing, etc, etc. The police must pull their hair out trying to sort out what has happened when all they have is a robbery victim.
Just sayin'.
motorhead, you bring up very valid points...
And your right about a robbery victim being scatter brained from the excitement and fear of the robbery but consider the muddle bucket of info when they have MANY victims to debrief...
And they are not at total liberty to listen to one calm guy saying "Sir, I did see and memorize the details, my co workers are not right about the description of the shorter guy... he was a dark skinned white feller not a light skinned colored feller..."
Brent
And your right about a robbery victim being scatter brained from the excitement and fear of the robbery but consider the muddle bucket of info when they have MANY victims to debrief...
And they are not at total liberty to listen to one calm guy saying "Sir, I did see and memorize the details, my co workers are not right about the description of the shorter guy... he was a dark skinned white feller not a light skinned colored feller..."
Brent
Any time I have been in fast food joint at night, it is hard to see out the windows into the parking lot. Too much glare. Further, I believe illuminating yourself against a window is much worse than exiting the building to try to get a better assessment of the situation. Also as Wendy's usually has two entry points to the public and one out back which if I read correctly is how the robber gained entry, did the employee follow out that door? If his intent was to gather more details as he didn't have info at the time such as license plate, direction, or how many perps, and encountered the robber fleeing and then gave chase, it is up to him (within the confines of the law) to determine what he is able and prepared to do. I have no issue with the action he took.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sure, if Dasher wanted to do it, it is fine. What I am having issues with is people advocating here that we are obligated to risk our lives for something as trivial as a license plate number for various made up noble reasons ranging from personal morals all the way up to and beyond the apparent total collapse of civilization if we don't. Oh! And I see the proclamations of societal breakdown are continuing because of all the witnesses not coming foward to tell the police about the getaway car...
LOL, gimme a break. Nobody is coming forward not because many of them saw the car and got the tag number but are adhering to a "No snitches" code, but because the robbers were on foot, did not have a vehicle at the Wendy's, and because there are not that many people out and about at 1:00 am, especially not many around a business that is closed.
There may be witnesses who saw the car, if there ever was one, I suppose, but how would they know it was the car from a robbery when it wasn't parked at the place robbed? I probably saw 500 vehicles yesterday. I saw about 30 where I stopped to buy gas. If any of those cars were the getaway car for bad guys who were robbing a business elsewhere, why would you think that I would remember the cars I saw? Just exactly how would you expect the public to make a connection between a robbery and a vehicle parked at another location and know that the vehicle belonged to the robbers? You couldn't do it. So why would you expect others to be able to do it?
DNS, thanks, that's my point... if Dasher (or another robbery victim) does not see robbers enter the vehicle, there are good odds nobody else will notice it.
So, while it has risk, there is a definite societal benefit when people actually try to determine where the bad guys went, and how they went.
Are you individually obligated to do that? No. But you shouldn't treat it as a stupid or worthless action. Potentially, a good witness from the first KC robbery could have prevented nine more robberies.
So, while it has risk, there is a definite societal benefit when people actually try to determine where the bad guys went, and how they went.
Are you individually obligated to do that? No. But you shouldn't treat it as a stupid or worthless action. Potentially, a good witness from the first KC robbery could have prevented nine more robberies.
DNS- I think there may be some confusion here- I was referring to the KC robberies that MLeake linked .....
...... though I do not doubt that the perps in the Wendy's robbery had a vehicle nearby......
Nobody said you were obligated to risk your life ...... I am however advocating, and have an issue with anyone advocating against, the idea that we have a duty to help maintain a civil Society. If you want to tell everybody, "I got mine, and it's not my job.", well fine ...... just try not to discourage the folks doing the right thing...... it smacks of the atheists sneering at the Sunday crowd .....
Why would you have issues with the idea that you have a responsibility to help the Police? You want a civil Society, or do you want the Law of the Jungle? If you want a civil Society, then wanting it and not doing things required to make it happen is as bad as the Occutards wanting all their stuff paid for ....... ain't gonna happen.
Look around you ....... Where do you see societal breakdown? It is not where the social norm is for folks to be a good witness, to help each other, to do the right thing, even at some inconvenience or even risk to themselves ...... it is in those places where the attitude "It's not my job." rules ..... and it is at it's very worst in those places where folks who try to help, to do the right thing, are ridiculed (or even persecuted) as "unwise", "foolish", "sellouts", or even "snitches" .......