Wendy's Employee Kills Robber

[Sarge]

Could be close range. Could be a heck of a shot. It could be a poorly aimed shot, aiming for the chest but looking over his sights which caused the shot to go high.

Amen to all... heck it could have been a ricochet. The salient point of which is:

You have to be good. The other guy only has to be lucky.

 

[ripnbst]

My prediction, Wendy's employee is fired and charged.

The Employee put themselves into harms way by going after the criminals after they left. having a gun doesn't make you the police, the employee had no reason to chase after the criminals. He wasn't protecting under the "you and yours" legal intent(at least in my state anyway). He was not the employer but an employee and even if he were the fact that he went after them after they had already left I think negates that.

I think the employee might be in some trouble here.

 

[MLeake]

ripnbst, my bet is you are dead wrong.

OTOH, civil suits can always be attempted. However, under GA law, if the shoot is determined to have been justified by the DA, the plaintiff would have an uphill battle even bringing a case to court.

 

[hogdogs]

If georgia has law similar to fla, than the following...

having a gun doesn't make you the police, the employee had no reason to chase after the criminals.

A gun doesn't but being a citizen does...

I feel I have the right to hold a felon for LEO's to arrive so I will consider the situation and act accordingly... If this guy was the only one to go out and engage telling them they ought to wait for the cops... Seems only the citizen wendy's emp and the bad guys were at great risk from his decision... Seems these bad guys did not make the correct decision to me...

Seems they took this guy's opportunity to just place them under citizen's arrest and upped the ante a bit higher...

Does anyone know the law in GA about detaining a fleeing violent felon?

Brent

 

[jimbob86]

the employee had no reason to chase after the criminals.

I say he was doing his utmost to be a good witness:

911 Dispatcher: "Did you you see which direction he went?"

Citizen: "Yes, Officer! He went down! I'll keep an eye on him till the cops get here......"

We are not required, in florida, to let a violent felon escape us...

Three Cheers for Florida!

 

[jimbob86]

A gun doesn't but being a citizen does...

This^>

I give you Sir Robert Peel:

"The Police are the Public and the Public are the Police."



http://thelawdogfiles.blogspot.com/2008/04/police-are-public-and-public-are-police.html

Do a search for "Peelian Principles" ...... #7, read it ....

"you are not the police" is the beginning of "Us and Them"..... and "It's not my job." ........ I'm not a Public Works employee, either, but I pick up litter when I see it on the street in my community.

....... maybe that's why the unionized Urban centers in this country are such hellholes.......

.....just thinkin' out loud ........

 

[motorhead0922]

I'm trying to look at the situation from Mr. Dasher's point of view:
1. I just had a gun to my head with the perp demanding money. He had another guy with him, maybe armed too.
2. They have left the office with the money, I think I heard them leave the building.
3. I have my gun with me, legally carried.
4. Are the coming back again? Tonight? Tomorrow? When? They are out there somewhere!
5. This is why I carry. I'm going to take a look!

If I didn't do what Dasher did, it would be time for me to get rid of my guns, 'cuz I ain't gonna ever use them for real.

Dasher has guts, and this world needs more like him.

 

[MTT TL]

A moral issue? We are morally obligated to get license plate numbers even if such action puts us in life threatening situations? I don't think so.

You are morally obligated to do whatever you think you are morally obligated to do. No more, no less.

I'm not a Public Works employee, either, but I pick up litter when I see it on the street in my community.

ahhh.. but you have no special training in waste management. How do you sleep at night knowing that at any time that piece of liter could give you a good staph infection?

 

[Merad]

I'm trying to look at the situation from Mr. Dasher's point of view:
1. I just had a gun to my head with the perp demanding money. He had another guy with him, maybe armed too.
2. They have left the office with the money, I think I heard them leave the building.
3. I have my gun with me, legally carried.
4. Are the coming back again? Tonight? Tomorrow? When? They are out there somewhere!
5. This is why I carry. I'm going to take a look!

If I didn't do what Dasher did, it would be time for me to get rid of my guns, 'cuz I ain't gonna ever use them for real.

Dasher has guts, and this world needs more like him.

Does he have guts? Sure. But he ran into an unknown situation and got lucky. The story could just as easily have end with, "the robbers had a third accomplice in a getaway car who saw Dasher leaving the restaurant [...] Dasher is survived by..." or a thousand other variations that involve him being surprised by the unknown, or the BG being slightly faster than him....

Money isn't worth dying for. Especially when it isn't even your money.

 

[(*_*)]

No weapons policy. The employee will be fired.

Good, he can move onto a better safer job in a better safer location.

 

[hogdogs]

Money isn't worth dying for. Especially when it isn't even your money.

No but doing my level best to get these felons off the street by holding them by any level of force I need until the cops arrive is an option I reserve for consideration...


Other folks' money is never a consideration of mine... My money might be something I try to keep to myself. But letting a bad person or persons leave is just like giving a stray cat a bowl of milk... Ferals in society need handled as soon as possible... leaving the scene is the nearest thing short of right in the store...


Brent

 

[dev_null]

No but doing my level best to get these felons off the street by holding them by any level of force I need until the cops arrive is an option I reserve for consideration...

When I took my CCW training, and subsequently took SD training, it was drummed into me that carrying a weapon did not make me Paul Kersey... it only gave me better odds of defending myself or loved ones (and in some cases my property) against immanent threat. That does not include going after an armed, fleeing criminal, in my personal opinion. I'm not talking about bravery, or moral outrage, only what is tactically sound and within the limits of the law.

YMMV, of course.

 

[MLeake]

dev_null, no disrespect intended, but the limits of the law depend on where you are.

 

[hogdogs]

dev, I don' think much about worrying if I have a gun or not... In fact, any time I ever did give chase to a fleeing felon I was never onced armed with a fire arm... Most I ever had on me was a Buck 110.

I have had to pass on other situations due to an overwhelming disparity of force against me...

Brent

 

[jimbob86]

ahhh.. but you have no special training in waste management. How do you sleep at night knowing that at any time that piece of liter could give you a good staph infection?

My life, I'll take that risk.

When we leave everything to the "experts", so much gets left undone that the sheer enormity of the problems ....... the whole system collapses: You get Detroit.

 

[motorhead0922]

Money isn't worth dying for. Especially when it isn't even your money.

Of course you are correct. But I wasn't even thinking of the money, and I don't think very many of us were either. It's about having the opportunity, right in front of you, to make the world better by helping capture or remove a criminal. This is a borderline case, where the victim has a chance to think "should I chase him or not". I come down on the side of giving chase, knowing what I know which isn't a whole lot.

Look, we're all going to die of something. I don't yet know from what. Will it be a 4 year battle with cancer? 10 year battle with Alzheimer's? Sudden heart attack? Standing between my wife and a murderer? If we get over the thought (should I say fear?) of death, we can then live like we want to. Given a choice, I'll die with my boots on.

Do we really want this on our tombstone: "He lived a safe life." Really?

 

[Colorado Redneck]

Would a perp ever kill you so you couldn't ID them?

I wonder if the Wendy's employee was thinking he was vulnerable because he could ID the perpetrator? Maybe was he afraid the robbers would come back to get him because of that? Or wait for him outside?

Who knows? And when you are in a situation like this, is it possible you might do something that had not been thought out previously, for a reason that we are not even aware of? Maybe he knew the perp personally?

Concealed carry brings a huge responsiblity with it. There are more things that can go wrong than the average person imagines. And shooting a person is not the end of the story. It might be the beginning of a nightmare.

 

[dev_null]

mleake, you're probably right. And perhaps I'm reading too much into a few comments. But I get concerned about a 'cowboy mentality' (so-called) when I see comments like these -- I'm playing fast and loose with grammar in combining these disparate statements into one string, for the sake of clarity, but they all come from the thread above:

Getting felons off the street ... by any level of force I need ... handling ferals in society ... giving chase to a fleeing felon ... making the world better by helping capture or remove a criminal ... in order to die with my boots on.

That's not what a CCW permit gives you. That's what swearing an oath as a peace officer gives you. The two should not be confused.

Please don't misunderstand me: I'm not attacking the folks who make these remarks; rather, I'm trying to argue that the assumptions behind them are the result of faulty thinking, and maybe, just maybe, an overabundance of indignation, however righteous.

Again, this is IMHO and all disclaimers apply.

 

[hogdogs]

Dev... You got this all wrong from how I look upon the subject... Since some of your quoted lines are mine I have to point out... AGAIN... that the CCW does not make me authorized to handle criminals... Being an American Citizen does afford me this option and at times, I will use it.

As I said before, I have never engaged with a felon while I even had a gun on me out in public...

All of those times I was armed with my wits always and a knife some of the time...

In fact, it was a case where I tackled a crack buyer but the dealer got away... I was on him like a hen on a june bug and immediately had him down and a knee on his neck and another on his ribs and a knife at the ready while another neighbor as tired of the crackheads and unregulated pharmaceutical salesmen dialed 911 for me.

At that time I thought ALL felons were fair game for me to use "any force needed" until an LEO could arrive and take custody of the felon I placed "under citizen's arrest"... A detective had to investigate and I faced some charge like "unlawful detention" or some such wording. He informed me that he would make sure the DA did not have enuff to prosecute me.

He is the one who informed me of the "violent felony" differentiation in the Fla. law.

While I am no more obligated to endanger myself than a sworn officer, I feel the civil obligation to do what ever I can to thwart crimes against my fellow man when I feel the odds are 50/50 or better that I will not get myself in harm...

As previously said... we all have to go some time...

I was raised that a coward will die a thousand deaths but the courageous only has to die once...

I was also told that the worst that will happen is I will be killed but most won't eat me...

Brent

 

[dev_null]

OK. Apologies if I misrepresented your position.