Pond James Pond
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Then this makes my inquiry "To what end?" even more pertinent.
Weapons at ballot counting..
- Thread starter Waterdog
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Then this makes my inquiry "To what end?" even more pertinent.
zincwarrior
New member
I'll be honest, I now want a gun that shoots ballots at people.
buck460XVR
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musicmatty
New member
Lots of opinions here and I respect each and everyone of them. However, I do greatly disagree with some of them. Especially the one stating that these people show up with the intention of looking for a fight and to kill someone because they can under the Second Amendment. Now that’s a very broad statement and no one has suggested doing any such thing.
I 100% do not support the idea of walking on egg shells to appease other people from taking away my gun rights because they perceive me as a threat. I think this is where we get into trouble as a society pandering to groups of people. I respect those who want to be passive and not carry a gun so let us all live free and be expressive without having or feeling the need to walk on eggshells.
I 100% do not support the idea of walking on egg shells to appease other people from taking away my gun rights because they perceive me as a threat. I think this is where we get into trouble as a society pandering to groups of people. I respect those who want to be passive and not carry a gun so let us all live free and be expressive without having or feeling the need to walk on eggshells.
I consider myself and Independent and stopped being so during Obama's second term. What changed me is the Media and the Government's attempt to suppress opinions against their Liberal Agenda, whether it be gun rights or religious freedom. Since then, I've been labeled in my family as an extreme Right Wing Supporter. Yes, I am not because I believe in balance. Suppressing people's opinion by destroying their lives is not acceptable to me and that's what I saw.
I admit I'm a strong supporter of the 2A. Shooting guns is a sport and hobby to me. But if someone was going to attack me, family, friends on the innocent, I'll use to on someone and suffer whatever legal consequence because our culture, ethics, and morals should allow us to do so. I don't like it if let's say I'm at a shooting range, enjoying my sport and hobby and everyone I know is safe and responsibly. Meanwhile, some Liberal comes in and says it's potentially dangerous and therefore I can't have it. Or best, they'll keep a record of my gun. Why? to take it from me when they feel like it? That's what happened in CA with the SKS with it's detachable magazine.
Any old vets out there? Was it true that Bill Clinton passed out a questionaire that asked if you would disarm the American Public if ordered too? I asked 3 vets at separate occasions and they said yes.
I think the election fraud accusation should be reviewed. If true, it seriously undermines not only our constitution but American Culture. It's bad enough that we learn that we should wait our turn in line and then let Illegal Immigrants cut in line and become citizenship. It's bad enough we are taught to be calm and reasonable and debate while the Liberals are allowed to riot and loot. Now our belief that elections of a Free and Fair election is under mind. The problem needs to be addressed. My recommended solution for the later is hold the election over again, watch it very closely and let the chips fall where they will and should.
I admit I'm a strong supporter of the 2A. Shooting guns is a sport and hobby to me. But if someone was going to attack me, family, friends on the innocent, I'll use to on someone and suffer whatever legal consequence because our culture, ethics, and morals should allow us to do so. I don't like it if let's say I'm at a shooting range, enjoying my sport and hobby and everyone I know is safe and responsibly. Meanwhile, some Liberal comes in and says it's potentially dangerous and therefore I can't have it. Or best, they'll keep a record of my gun. Why? to take it from me when they feel like it? That's what happened in CA with the SKS with it's detachable magazine.
Any old vets out there? Was it true that Bill Clinton passed out a questionaire that asked if you would disarm the American Public if ordered too? I asked 3 vets at separate occasions and they said yes.
I think the election fraud accusation should be reviewed. If true, it seriously undermines not only our constitution but American Culture. It's bad enough that we learn that we should wait our turn in line and then let Illegal Immigrants cut in line and become citizenship. It's bad enough we are taught to be calm and reasonable and debate while the Liberals are allowed to riot and loot. Now our belief that elections of a Free and Fair election is under mind. The problem needs to be addressed. My recommended solution for the later is hold the election over again, watch it very closely and let the chips fall where they will and should.
A few points to consider...
First, I did some thinking, and now I feel that at a polling/counting place (and other places, too) I am more at risk from a group of political thugs with clubs and sticks than I am from one armed with rifles and combat gear.
They might beat me!! And I'll be hurt, or possibly even die, and the press will probably ignore it and report things were "mostly peaceful" while the police will be unlikely to pursue the matter to the fullest.
However if they shoot me or shoot at me, THAT will raise a major stink that cannot be ignored (and would likely be national news) and so, I think the guys with the guns who are trying to make their point are a LOT less likely to USE those guns than the people with clubs and baseball bats are.
Next, I'm getting tired of the phrase "undermining our Constitution".. its a lovely sound byte but its misleading and inaccurate. People ignoring, disobeying and flaunting our Constitution does not undermine the principles of the Constitution or its position as the "highest law of the land".
lastly, I'm reminded of something about elections I heard on Paul Harvey some decades ago (and he pointed out its wasn't his idea, he was just passing it along)
Where do you think we might be if our ballots had a "none of the above" option? And, if none of the above won the most votes, a new election would be held later (say 60 days) with none of the candiates on the previous ballot allowed on the new one. This process to be repeated until someone won...
Not going to happen easily,. or likely within our lifetimes, but the way things are going, I beginning to wonder if that might not be a good idea for us...
First, I did some thinking, and now I feel that at a polling/counting place (and other places, too) I am more at risk from a group of political thugs with clubs and sticks than I am from one armed with rifles and combat gear.
They might beat me!! And I'll be hurt, or possibly even die, and the press will probably ignore it and report things were "mostly peaceful" while the police will be unlikely to pursue the matter to the fullest.
However if they shoot me or shoot at me, THAT will raise a major stink that cannot be ignored (and would likely be national news) and so, I think the guys with the guns who are trying to make their point are a LOT less likely to USE those guns than the people with clubs and baseball bats are.
Next, I'm getting tired of the phrase "undermining our Constitution".. its a lovely sound byte but its misleading and inaccurate. People ignoring, disobeying and flaunting our Constitution does not undermine the principles of the Constitution or its position as the "highest law of the land".
lastly, I'm reminded of something about elections I heard on Paul Harvey some decades ago (and he pointed out its wasn't his idea, he was just passing it along)
Where do you think we might be if our ballots had a "none of the above" option? And, if none of the above won the most votes, a new election would be held later (say 60 days) with none of the candiates on the previous ballot allowed on the new one. This process to be repeated until someone won...
Not going to happen easily,. or likely within our lifetimes, but the way things are going, I beginning to wonder if that might not be a good idea for us...
stagpanther
New member
I suppose then it's perfectly within someone's rights to set up a sniper hide wherever and whenever they want? They may want to protect a puppy in the park 2000 yds away.
Pathfinder45
New member
Well, I'm no lawyer, but I do believe that it's actually a crime to intimidate voters from casting their ballots. Armed groups in tactical gear at the polls that are simply exercising their constitutional RKBA? I'm not quite that gullible. I view it as selective intimidation designed to influence the outcome of an election, while disguising it as something legal.
Pond James Pond
New member
Going to the example given, I fail to see why anyone would countenance a bunch of people congregating with bats and sticks either.
I don’t see how either guns or bats have any place at a voting centre, in plain view. If you have. CCW licence and opt to carry, fine. Otherwise?
And if it creates an atmosphere of intimidation I think people will think twice about using the 1st amendment rights with impunity which, for me, is the most important of all the civil liberties.
A constitution is only as worthwhile as the degree it can be applied or enjoyed.
My €0.02.
I don’t see how either guns or bats have any place at a voting centre, in plain view. If you have. CCW licence and opt to carry, fine. Otherwise?
And if it creates an atmosphere of intimidation I think people will think twice about using the 1st amendment rights with impunity which, for me, is the most important of all the civil liberties.
A constitution is only as worthwhile as the degree it can be applied or enjoyed.
My €0.02.
buck460XVR
New member
No, but as responsible gun owners we should certainly strive for it and not show support to those that display irresponsible gun ownership. IMHO, this is what has eroded much of the positive sentiment towards gun ownership lately. Far too many folks insisting that any from of gun ownership is a God given right. Not being critical of poor and irresponsible examples of gun ownership means we condone it, and puts us all into the same category. No different than the support I see here for those who cry SSS on the hunting forum. To not chastise those comments means we endorse them.
Funny how so all of those threads started here about open carry, the overall sentiment is that folks only do it to flaunt or intimidate others, yet when it comes to doing it in front of polling centers it is just exercising our RKBA.
The second amendment starts out with "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA" which almost every state has in the form of NATIONAL GUARD. To imply that an armed mob that wants to overturn an election or a mask mandate is a well regulated militia, is ABSURD. I believe that most states have laws against vigilantes. If we as a country allow any pissed off group with guns to intimidate other people, we will soon descend into tyranny. Democracy is a fragile, sometimes messy way to run a country but guns to gain political power will kill our democracy. Bringing a gun to an argument (political or religious) is not an expression of a right, it is a threat. When our leaders (or our forum members) condone such action, we are moving much closer to tyranny. Grant
Excellent point Grant. I don't believe any of those self proclaimed "Militias" that stalked the Ballot counting stations or voting locations are or ever were well regulated.
That would, by definition, mean the group had received organized training and discipline. Legitimate regulated training too, not just running around a gravel pit yelling and firing an SKS from ones hip at tin cans.
That would, by definition, mean the group had received organized training and discipline. Legitimate regulated training too, not just running around a gravel pit yelling and firing an SKS from ones hip at tin cans.
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Gun ownership IS a fundamental natural right (aka God given), and not enough people are insisting that. However, it is important to make a clear distinction between the right to own weapons and what you do with them in public. And not enough people are doing that.
Again, here, I believe that "ownership" is not the correct word. "Behavior" is the proper word.
The Second Amendment does begin with those words. And each state does have a National Guard. This is true, but I don't see it as relevant here.
I will agree that any armed mob, and in particular the armed group under discussion is not a well regulated militia, even if they use the word militia when identifying themselves. No one in this thread has said they were, or implied such, that I can see.
Let me be clear, I am not condoning or endorsing an armed mob, or any mob, of any ideology, outside a polling/ballot counting place.
What I am upholding is our right of FREE SPEECH, which includes speech we may find objectionable, distasteful, or just wrong, until it violates existing law.
I hope we can all see the distinction.
Just because something is legal and within one's Constitutional Rights... doesn't mean it is "right" to do. There is indeed a difference.
Placing a crucifix in a jar of urine, photographing it and displaying it in public as "Art", may be legal, but it certainly wasn't right, at least as far as most of us were concerned way back when (Maplethorpe's "Piss Christ", circa 1987).
Burning a flag is also legal, but most of us agree it isn't right. In fact, we know it is just plain wrong.
It may be legal to carry an AR15 and protest outside a ballot counting station, but it doesn't make it right either.
Placing a crucifix in a jar of urine, photographing it and displaying it in public as "Art", may be legal, but it certainly wasn't right, at least as far as most of us were concerned way back when (Maplethorpe's "Piss Christ", circa 1987).
Burning a flag is also legal, but most of us agree it isn't right. In fact, we know it is just plain wrong.
It may be legal to carry an AR15 and protest outside a ballot counting station, but it doesn't make it right either.
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stagpanther
New member
Sooner or later these armed militias are going to pick a fight with the wrong LE outfit. Tonight there's a special on CBS about armed militias--I only saw the trailer, but I saw the same McVeigh look in the guy's eyes. It's always the same thing "we're only peaceful folks and we're not looking to cause no trouble with nobody--but we're willing to fight to the death for what we believe in, which is safeguarding your freedom [which almost always boils down to their unrestricted use of firearms anytime anywhere and the self-appointed mission of preventing the spread of what they see as a ideological threat]."
The irony is these are the guys that bring the public's focus on further gun control measures, not to mention gun buying panics (maybe another goal, who knows).
The irony is these are the guys that bring the public's focus on further gun control measures, not to mention gun buying panics (maybe another goal, who knows).
You forgot one , kneeling for the national anthem
. We can go down a whole list of things that are legal and looked down upon . Hmm lets IDK say openly carrying firearms is one lol
It's interesting to me that this thread has not touched on the real issue . Late 1700's people outside poling place open carrying , anyone care ? 1800's people outside polling place openly carrying , anyone care ? 1900's up to about the 40's people outside the polling place open carrying , anyone care ?
Then mid to late 1900's guns are bad and should not be seen in public . 2000's Now guns must be hidden and children should not be exposed to them . Starting to see a pattern ?
When society as a whole creates a fear of something , when that thing rears it's head people fear it . As others have stated in this thread when you are afraid you notice things more while at the same time having tunnel vision .
This is not about guns at the polling / counting places . This is about the anti's creating the fear of guns in society for decades now . They've been playing the long game while we play the short game . The only reason this thread has so many post and disagreements is because we as a society have excepted that guns should be feared . That anti gun created fear is the very reason people show up with guns to intimidate , they understand the fear they invoke . If we all had them and carried them , nobody would care if they were at a polling / counting place .
We have already lost this fight in the court of public opinion . The only way tyrannical gun control is stopped is by the courts because we lost the 2nd amendment argument a long time ago based on the fear they invoke in the general public .
There's my $.02 take it for what it's worth .
MG
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This is ALL ABOUT GUNS AT POLING/COUNTING PLACES! Any time in history that armed angry mobs are at poling places, Democracy is the loser. This was done in the old South to keep blacks from voting. It was done in the county I live in, in the 1890s when armed supporters of a candidate would not let people into town to vote. Not too much different than armed men screaming STOP THE VOTE/COUNT. If we as responsible gun owners dont protest against armed thugs harming our democracy, we will give the anti gunners more obvious reasons to make more laws.
Our country is too close to the hatred that started the civil war, and as I get reminded at times "The civil war started long before the first shots were fired".
Chairman Mao said "Power comes from the barrel of a gun". You can see how well that turned out for the Chinese people. Grant.
Our country is too close to the hatred that started the civil war, and as I get reminded at times "The civil war started long before the first shots were fired".
Chairman Mao said "Power comes from the barrel of a gun". You can see how well that turned out for the Chinese people. Grant.
Grant , you appear to have drank the anti koolaid . I stand by my point as I’m sure you stand by yours as well . Isn’t America great , we can have differing opinions and yet not try to harm each other . The intimidation you speak of only can occur if one is willing to be intimidated . I refuse to be , decisions are made by those who show up . They want to bring guns then so will I . That’s one of the many reason for the 2nd amendment. It’s the great equalizer that banning weapons does not allow for . American history is filled with righteous Americans refusing to be intimidated . This is just another chapter in our history . Will there be another shot heard around the world , I don’t know .
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