Weapons at ballot counting..

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The mysterious arrival of van loads of boxes of ballots at counting places long after the polls had supposedly closed has been widely reported in numerous alternative media sources. If members here are free to hypothesize that armed people outside counting locations are there for the purpose of intimidating the counters, why should I not be allowed to suggest as a conjecture that they are there in the hope of preventing the delivery of more fraudulent votes? That conjecture offers a potential alternate motive for their presence.
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Defending whom, such that firearms are necessary?

Are they qualified to know what is an invalid ballot? Are they trained to cross-check the against previously cast ballots? Are they law enforcement? Are they duly appointed/elected to election roles?

None of the above. It is a vigilante wannabe-group trying to intimidate. Absolutely banana-republic stuff.
 
The guns at poles or counting places, and spreading doubt about our election system plays right into Putins long dreamed of plan to destabilize the west, and America in particular. Grant.
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Riight..the same guy who we were told for several years "interfered" with the last elections so that Trump would WIN???

Everybody's pet conspiracy theories are as true as sunrise, and all are absolute bunk, all at the same time.

Also, debunking one, or proving one true doesn't mean the rest of them are.

Those people are out there looking menacing so they scare people, because when something scares you, you do not ignore it. What you do about that depends on lots of things, but one thing you don't do is ignore it.

That's what they want. TO be seen, and seen as something to be reckoned with. So that they feel they matter. Or so it seems to me...
 
In my view, when people exercise their right to keep and bear arms with

such a visible and public display, they are either supporting the 2nd

Amendment, or undermining it. All too often, we have seen the exercise

executed in such poor taste and graceless form as to truly be detrimental to

the 2nd Amendment that we say we support. I'm tired of inappropriate

displays of weaponry. While I enjoy shooting and have a high regard for the

right to do so, I am worried that some overzealous RKBA folks are putting us

all in jeopardy of losing it by their perhaps well-meaning, but never-the-less,

negative expressions.

"Don't you know? The road to hell is paved with good intentions!"
 
The 2nd amendment doesn't say we have the right to keep and bear arms in good taste.

and, we'd probably be worse off if it did.

And yes, buffoons on our side do make the responsible among us look bad to those in the middle, because we certainly can't look much worse to our opponents.
 
Good point 44Amp.
There is no IQ test mentioned in the 2nd or 1st Amendments.
And no IQ test required to post in a public online forum either. Objectivism? Absolutely.
Conspiracy theories though? They have no place on the Firing Line where the general public can view and judge. We are better than that.
 
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I have no problem speaking my mind and being straightforward. I’m not trying to score points with those people who think that everyone who carries a gun is a redneck lunatic. I think it’s the insane media of CNN and MSNBC and the others that are raging against the gun owners For any excuse they can find… Remember how they branded us..’ those who cling to their Bibles and guns.

Personally, I would happily join my fellow patriots in a town Square Carrying my gun for show of support Of gun ownership. I have no problem either with people who want to proudly display their guns at voting locations. Voting rights and gun ownership go hand-in-hand in our Country.
 
"those who cling to their Bibles and guns."

If I recall, it was Obama who said that, the media just reported and repeated it. It was an Extremely divisive and condescending comment from a US President.
 
If I recall, it was Obama who said that, the media just reported and repeated it. It was an Extremely divisive and condescending comment from a US President.
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That statement changed me forever and at that moment I became a registered independent.
There’s no misinterpreting that comment. To them, The constitution is antiquated and should be changed. They also have a pompous attitude that those who have religious beliefs are nothing more than fairytale followers.

That statement should’ve been a wake up call for everyone who believes in our constitution as it is written. They don’t want to take away our constitution, they want to rewrite it and rewrite it without God in it. In my opinion, our nation has chose to cower and look the other way and be politically correct. We have allowed evil ideologies into our country that should’ve been checked at the door a long long time ago.
 
Actually, I believe he said it in the primary running against Hillary in 2008.

"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations"
 
Nether side has a monopoly on arrogance, elitism, or ignorance.

I am not sure if only people with those traits seek high political office or if our system just selects for that, but it seems to be what we have been getting the most of for a long time now.

When the major players on one side consider the rest of us a "basket of deplorables, clinging to our guns and our religion" we're not in a good place.

Especially if the ones on the other side think the same thing, but are just smart enough not to get caught saying it...

Another part of the problem is that those people are working hard to be our leaders, when they should be working to be our servants, though the fault is not entirely theirs, as a segment of our population demands just that.

For me, one of the more recent telling moments was during the Democratic debates, when one of them made the mistake of being honest and flat out saying "Hell yes, we're going to take your AR-15!"..

NONE of the others on that stage objected, they all just smiled and nodded, except Biden, who kept his usual slightly confused look, and stammered " I don't think that's Constitutional"....

that, and the fact that within two days Beto was removed from the race ought to tell you a lot..right there...
 
None of this discussion of how bad Beto is really has anything to do with folks in tactical gear and ARs lurking outside vote-counting places. The question at hand is not whether it is legal (it is), but what conceivable purpose it serves other than intimidation. Are they preparing for some hypothetical firefight with poll-workers, vote-counters, or mail deliverers?

I don't see a legitimate reason for them being there (it sure ain't self-defense), and the fact that it is legal does not make it morally right or smart (for RKBA).
 
I live in PA and when I vote I always carry concealed. Because you can where I vote and because I always carry. No one needs to know that I'm carrying.
 
The question at hand is not whether it is legal (it is), but what conceivable purpose it serves other than intimidation.
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While that might be what most people see, that is an opinion, and their opinion is different from yours (or mine).

You see intimidation, and they see free expression of their views. Again, it doesn't matter left, right, up, down, or sideways, its "Free Speech" and allowed under the law.

We find this example distasteful and harmful to our cause, but its their right to do it, just as it is the right of the Nazis to march, or any other group, who do so peacefully in accordance with the law.

Yes, doing it they way they're doing it is a bad idea, but until bad ideas break existing law, its only a bad idea.
 
While that might be what most people see, that is an opinion, and their opinion is different from yours (or mine).

You see intimidation, and they see free expression of their views. Again, it doesn't matter left, right, up, down, or sideways, its "Free Speech" and allowed under the law.
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Fully agreed...and if I may add..... More than anything else, I see it as a statement. Just as people put bumper stickers on their car expressing their opinions or carrying signs. Just as Christians wear crosses or crucifixes around their neck openly displaying and showing everyone that they are of Christian faith.

I would rather see a statement made regarding firearms any place any time, rather than sitting quietly on the sidelines doing nothing as our gun rights slowly start to disappear. Stand up loud and proud and own it. These people are coming for your gun rights regardless.
 
"These people are coming for your gun rights regardless".
I agree. However, those people are the minority, the condescending liberal elites. The average American voter is more open minded or ambivalent towards gun owners... but can easily be intimidated and persuaded to support further restrictions/ confiscation, IF they see a bunch of camo & tactical vest wearing, AR15 carrying folks at voting stations. It is all about perception. Others may view you FAR differently than you view yourself.
I fear that some of us, no matter how Patriotic, within our rights and well intentioned, may be playing right into the hands of gun control advocates.
You may view yourself as a "Ballot / voter observer", & Patriot, however you may be perceived by others as an intimidating vigilante / right wing militant / Cop wannabe who shouldn't be allowed to have "machine guns" or run around like that in public. If so, how will they vote when it comes to future attempts at gun control?? Perception is everything.

Carrying concealed? Absolutely. Out of sight, out of mind. Be cool. ;)
 
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Unless it's military or police--I personally automatically go to condition yellow when I see combat armed "militia" who's presence is ambiguous. I'm out of there--I don't care what the law or rights say. Anyone who thinks they are not potentially looking for a fight and willing to kill Americans is a fool IMO. And these same "2nd amendment gives me the right to kill people" fools are exactly the ones who will accelerate the gun control movement IMO.
 
One can legally observe without needing to be armed, and one can also be legally armed where its legal to do so. What the law allows and what is a good idea are often vastly different things.
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Yep. Another example of the truism “just because you can, doesn’t mean that you should.”
 
As someone geographically quite removed from the recent vote, and as someone who is not covered by the umbrella of the 2A, I see firearms as a hobby and sport foremost, because that is how I use them. I do recognise their value in self-defence.

In this respect I agree with darkgael's point above.

As such, I struggle with the idea of turning up at counting centres visibly armed.

To what end? What's the message being conveyed and to whom, because it most certainly is a message.
 
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