Was I at Fault?

In over 30 years of licensed carry I have been pulled over three times, and on each occasion I handed over my CWP along with my driver's license. The worst thing that happened (and not bad) was a guy giving a smart aleck response about it not being a license to violate traffic laws. I calmly replied that I understood that, but that I was making him aware of it as a courtesy so that he did not feel threatened. Another LEO present, who I took to be perhaps a training officer, took him aside immediately, talked to him for a couple of minutes, then came back my car and told me that I handled the situation appropriately, and thanked me for doing so.

The other two thanked me without the introductory snark. No one ever took my pistol, only told me to move slowly and keep my hands visible.

These were in Florida, where informing is not a requirement. I still think it wise for safety.
 
reynolds357 said:
The reason the hushed comment about the trigger was because carrying modified weapons, especially modified fire control, violates most department policies
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This was about his competition pistol.

The hushed tone was, consistent with Brit's comment, because he didn't want the others hearing him discussing the topic.

It may not be intuitive to anyone in this thread. We write about guns online and consider shooting to be great and wholesome fun. Yet many don't see them as fun or even interesting, and that includes lots of POs.
 
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Know your laws. It looks like you were under no obligation to notify law enforcement when stopped but are to provide your license immediately if requested.

It doesn't appear that you did anything wrong, but, as others have pointed out, it would be common courtesy to verbally notify the officer.
 
The Glock 19 4th Gen I am carrying now, has a 4.5LB trigger, TruGlo Night Sights, extended slide lock/Release. And rides in a Glock $13.00 belt slide holster. Holds the Glock hi at 4 O-clock. G17 mag as a spare, surefire flashlight in a belt holster with that Mag. And Mass Ayoob says no modifying of your carry pistol? Sure.
Mass contacted me, cleared up what he actually said. Based on actual Court cases, altered trigger pulls, much to light, reduced to just a couple of lbs, would get you in trouble. And rightfully so.
 
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Here in Arkieville we have some interesting situations.

Since I have a carry permit I am required by law to tell any LEO I interact with if I have a gun on me.

We also have journey travel carry and constitutional carry. I'm not aware of any requirement for someone carrying in either of those situations to inform a LEO.

Certainly a criminal has no requirement to inform because that would violate their right against self incrimination.

So why am I so special in the eyes of our legislators and LEO's?
 
I don't offer any additional information, its constitutional carry here, no law that states a firearm must be declared. I rarely ever get pulled over but here occasionally they might ask "any weapons in the vehicle" - stating "yes" doesn't often even result in a follow up question rather it's just part of the traffic stop script they learn at the academy.

Once I had a car completely full of guns, was asked very nicely if I minded just standing outside for a couple minutes while he ran my license and the young officer handed my license back with a "hey you should really get this inspected". Police are nice here and I have never heard of them fumbling around with people's guns...

Many police officers are vets, many own their own guns and do shoot. Generally as a population they are plenty capable of unloading a 1911, but here nobody is doing that unless they already put you in cuffs to my knowledge.. maybe in other places it's different.
 
riffraff said:
Many police officers are vets, many own their own guns and do shoot. Generally as a population they are plenty capable of unloading a 1911, but here nobody is doing that unless they already put you in cuffs to my knowledge.. maybe in other places it's different.
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I respectfully disagree. Perhaps in your area police are "generally" capable of unloading a 1911. Around here, generally they are not (at least, not safely). And tying it to many police being veterans (which, BTW, is also not the case around here), that means nothing. The U.S. military replaced the M1911A1 with the Beretta M9 in 1985. That was 35 years ago. There are no currently-serving police officers who were in the military when they might have been issued a 1911 (with the possible exception of a very small number of special forces type "operators"). As an NRA handgun instructor, I've had veterans in some of my classes, since they need the class to get a carry permit in this state. Some of those veterans were among the worst boneheads in my classes.
 
In my state it is neither a legal obligation to tell or to answer a question. I will let them do their job without any answers, every time.
 
I think you did the right thing by affirming you had it--based on being asked which means they likely knew you had it. If you are not required to reveal that even if asked, I get why someone might not answer anyway if not legally required; you might not necessarily know that a multiple homicide just happened down the street using the same kind of gun you just happen to be carrying. If you are absolutely sure you have no duty to inform--and aren't asked, then I wouldn't volunteer the info, nice guy or otherwise. "Anything you say can and may be used against you" may not necessarily be trumped being courteous. Keep in mind I have immense respect for and have LEO friends, but they might not be the ones who pulled me over. I'm no legal expert, but that's what I would do. Anything that has to do with firearms can rapidly snowball into a bad scenario, even if ultimately you were "right." Just my opinion.;)
 
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For 25 years, in Toronto Ontario. Canada. I trained Security/Police/Military as they required my Diploma as proof of expertise.
Most young people in Canada had been to farms where firearms were present.
The Army young people required written proof of some kind to apply for the advanced military units. Security required the same Diploma to apply for a Carry permit, for work. First revolvers, then later Glocks.
The ability to issue these Diplomas came from the OPP Firearms unit. Who was the last word in this. Two of these veterans came on a course, to monitor me teach? With suits, and writing pads? I said, "no way you have to shoot, you are armed are you not?"
Their reply they only had 18 rounds of .38 ammo.
My answer put your duty ammo in your coat pockets, load up with my reloads
and holster a loaded revolver (S&W 2 and a half inch snubnosed revolvers,
plus two speedloaders also) I had only 6 students turn up, 8 was the size of each class. Just 4 on the line at once, bunker type range.
I supplied all the equipment. The officers fired 6" low, 4" left at 7M.
I had a 38 Spl model 10, that spit lead, it would have cost $500. to send it to the S&W plant to fix it. I just threw the cylinder and yoke away, and kept it for teaching the trigger manipulation, and aiming. So I thought they were looking over the sights, so separately had them aim at 7M, at the Silhouette target, look at their master eye, from the front, liftback sight up, put front sight in the slot, then use the trigger to control the movement of the revolver. Done. Left with a 4-inch group, all double action, 7M-15M-6FT 2 headshots while walking forward. 20 rounds total. The Staff Sgt. said they raved about all the new ideas.

The absolutely worst students! Ex English Police Officers who had relocated, to Canada (Immigrated) almost 100% were petrified of these handguns.
You would have thought they were hand Grenades.
 
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I am in FL which is a non-required tell state. But as a courtesy I always inform the officer. Have never had a bad reaction from the officer when I did and never was asked to relinquish my gun until the stop was concluded.
 
Check out the requirement to inform the officer on handgunlaw.us the go to authority.

If I am stopped by LE I will always inform the officer if I am or am not armed when I hand them my drivers license and CCW license. If I am armed I will tell them where the firearm is, i.e. left hip.

One of the most dangerous things for a LEO on a traffic stop is walking up to the driver's window as the LEO doesn't have any idea what he/she is walking into.

Telling the officer is considered a courtesy which they appreciate and sometimes they will tell you that.

Were you "at fault" - I would say no - just uninformed.
 
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Being armed means you are aware that bad things happen, being armed is a conscious thought that the outcome of a possible criminal attack, can be altered by your mindset, every day.
 
confess?

Adhere to the law in your state. If you are demanded to hand over your CCW without being given a practicable reason have your attorney come to the scene.

Many people assume LEOs have a greater knowledge of guns.....they absolutely do not. They do know their duty weapon without doubt.
 
If you are demanded to hand over your CCW without being given a practicable reason have your attorney come to the scene.
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That is horrible advice.

As a former LEO, i can tell you emphatically, that will not work out well for you.
Here’s why. If i, as a LEO, stop you for a legal reason (say a traffic violation) and have a reasonable suspicion you are armed, i can search you for weapons (Terry vs. Ohio). It would be reasonable (if i chose) to remove that firearm from you until the stop is concluded. That falls under officer safety and the courts have given LEO’s great latitude in that regard.

So, on the side of the road, you plan on telling a LEO “ Nope, im not giving you my gun. We are going to sit here until my attny gets here”.

From the LEO’s point of view, he now has an armed individual refusing to comply with simple commands. That could get dicey.

How about you just be polite and comply with lawful orders.

Ive been stopped a few times after leaving the Sheriffs office. My hands go to 10 and 2 on the wheel. When they are at the window and ask for DL, Reg and ins, i say “Absolutely, but i have a permit and im carrying. What would you like me to do?”

This puts the stop on a more friendly basis and we usually end up chatting about guns and stuff. The one time i was asked to step out and the PO wanted to take my gun from me ( a crappy area, at night by a young female officer) i cooperated and things went smoothly from there.

Nothing good will come from being argumentative on the side of the road. Just be rational and allow the officer to do his/her job.
 
hmmm

This is not argumentative, merely my right.

States differ greatly and in my state this is accepted.

My statement was pointed to the author advising handing over a handgun for an LEO to check out may create a dangerous condition and that the badge does not qualify a LEO as a firearm's expert and can lead to a potentially dangerous condition.

Would never disrespect any LEO as if I did I would have no friends.
 
I don't know the law in PA, but in TX, an officer may legally temporarily disarm a permit holder during an interaction pretty much at the officer's discretion.

It would not, in my opinion, be smart to refuse to comply with an officer's lawful commands in the event that the officer decides to disarm you during an interaction.

State laws vary, but even where an officer doesn't have the right to disarm (which seems sort of unlikely), it would probably be smarter, in my opinion, not to get into an argument with an officer on the side of the road and try to put him off until your lawyer arrives on the scene.

My general advice to people as to how they should behave during traffic stops, is as follows:

1. Both of you are armed. Think about what you are doing and be smart.
2. Be polite. You will not win a "Who is the biggest jerk?" contest with a cop. They have a lot more experience and a lot more resources than you do.
3. Remember that a traffic stop is not a trial. You do NOT have the right to try your case by the side of the road. Take the ticket and collect any evidence that makes sense and then deal with it in court. Trying to argue your case by the side of the road as if it is a courtroom is a waste of your time and a waste of the cop's time.
4. If you don't want to answer questions, don't answer questions, but don't lie either. Keep rule #2 in mind, however.
5. Remember Wheaton's Law. The cop is at work performing a job that society has decided is necessary. Think about how you want to be treated when you are working and behave accordingly.
 
State laws vary, but even where an officer doesn't have the right to disarm (which seems sort of unlikely), it would probably be smarter, in my opinion, not to get into an argument with an officer on the side of the road and try to put him off until your lawyer arrives on the scene.
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I don't know every lawyer, or how this works in every state.

However, I don't know any lawyer who would respond to a call from a client being detained with "Don't do what he says! I'll be right there!". Generally, lawyers argue against prosecutors, judges and other lawyers about how courts apply law and facts, not with POs.
 
ammo.crafter said:
Adhere to the law in your state. If you are demanded to hand over your CCW without being given a practicable reason have your attorney come to the scene.

Many people assume LEOs have a greater knowledge of guns.....they absolutely do not. They do know their duty weapon without doubt.
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Some know their duty weapon. As former department armorer, I would argue that most dont.
 
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