Was I at Fault?

Yes, it's a courtesy. The officer was giving you good advice. I was pulled over once and I made sure that my hands were on the steering wheel. My wallet was in the glove box with my gun. I explained all of this to the officer in advance and asked him how he wanted me to proceed. He first wanted me to hand the gun to him (I offered to let him retrieve it himself), which I did. He did make me get out of the car and wait for him to run a background on me. I just stood there. The one odd thing was that he unloaded the gun. The way he was handling the gun, I was a bit concerned that he would have a ND, so I informed him that there was a round in the chamber. He fumbled his way through unloading the gun, and then gave it back to me unloaded with bullets - after he was done.

Was the officer a little off on his procedure - probably, but I didn't want to have any problems, so I just assisted the best I could when asked.
 
I taught a friend of mines wife to shoot an S&W Revolver, and a Glock 17, over about 4 hours. She was a natural! She loved the Glock. At 7M she shot the A-zone out of the IPSC target.
She had applied to a local Police Dept. I had my own training Company, not a favourite with the Police. I had stolen all their extra off duty cash. They were teaching at a local Community Colledge. But this did not make me popular. Plus my nickname of (Mad Mike)
Had to let you know what they thought of me!
I told this young Lady not to mention my name, to also say she had never fired a Hand Gun before the Police Colledge.

The Students fired the weapon that they were going to use at the Dept they were going too. In her case, a big chunk of steel, an S&W .40 Semi-Auto Stainless Steel.

Brenda shot on par with a Cop from another Police Officer, who was changing Police Departments. When she graduated, The Chief Instructor whispered on her way out "You know you you said you had never shot before Brenda." "You are so full of crap."
 
... very few officers know anything about the 1911...
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Testify!

I was pulled over once years ago by a still-learning-the-ropes officer, who was riding with her FTO. The FTO secured my holstered 1911 (I didn't have it holstered on my body, but it was wedged between my right thigh and the seat). He clearly did not know the 1911, as he thought the safety was a decocker and he kept inadvertently pointing my gun at my feet.

Original thread question: Alaska used to require informing LEO immediately, I cannot find that statute anymore (last I looked was a year or so ago), but local police still expect the armed citizen to announce it. Not too complicated, have your ID in your hand, give it to the officer soon as they get to your window and I say something along the lines of "Hello! State law requires me to show you my ID and inform you that I am carrying." Havent had any negative response to that yet. Then again, I can count on one hand the number of times I've been pulled over in the last 20 years.


The rookie officer I mentioned above, she still had plenty to learn. It was a 4am pull over, I had just got off my second job as a bouncer, so I still had my pepper spray, two sets of cuffs, folding knife, a second can of pepper spray, and oh yeah, my body armor on. She missed the knife, the second set of cuffs, and the pepper spray entirely. The reason for the stop was stated for me 'failing to turn into the closest lane', but I knew they were fishing for a DUI. I was polite, respectful, and both of them were the same to me.
 
I don't understand all the comments about not knowing the 1911. Don't you drop the mag and rack the slide to clear the chamber like just about every other semi auto on the planet? I don't have a 1911, but all of my semis with a safety have it in the same place(as a 1911) and they function pretty much the same. What am I missing?
 
A while ago a Texas ranger pulled a guy over,,, When he got to the window, the rapped the driver on the head with his nightstick... and said... when you get pulled over in Texas, you have you hands on the wheel with drivers license in one hand and your insurance paper in the other.
the driver apologized and said he would do so, the next time.
The trooper walked around to the passenger side and tapped them window,,, the passenger lower his window and the trooper rapped him on the head. the passenger asked “why did you do that?” Trooper replied,,”for what you are going to say about two miles down the road”>
 
but all of my semis with a safety have it in the same place(as a 1911) and they function pretty much the same. What am I missing?
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What you're missing is all the guns you don't have that have a safety on the slide, or the frame that works "up for off", does, or doesn't lock the slide, decocks or doesn't, in short all the DIFFERENT ways they can work. IF your car, and every car or truck you have is an automatic, do you know how to drive a standard, SAFELY??

I do, but then I've owned and driven them. Point here is, that, for whatever reason, if you don't know how to operate the mechanism, then YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO OPERATE THE MECHANISM.

As to a legal "duty to inform", check your state laws CAREFULLY. And consider this, even if you don't have a legal requirement to inform the officer, what are they going to think (and how will they react) if/when they SEE A GUN, that you DIDN'T tell them was going to be there???

People have been SHOT TO DEATH in those situations, and while it shouldn't happen, it has, and I'm pretty sure it will again.

That cop making the stop doesn't know you, and doesn't even know if the person behind the wheel is the person their license plate check says it should be.

I for one, don't relish the thought of being the target of some amped up officer shooting to slide lock because he saw a gun that I didn't warn him about, and is certain in his own mind that I plan to shoot him with it.

Are they all like that? Of course not. And this is, in no way meant to imply anything about the dedication and commitment to professionalism of our police officers. But it only take one, in just the right circumstances for really bad things to happen. Just look at the news....

Tell the officer you are armed, and ask him how he would like to proceed. Anything else is, to me, unacceptable risk.
 
I may have oversimplified a bit with the 1911 question. Unloading a handgun is [to me] a pretty basic firearm handling exercise, even with the varying manual of arms of different firearms. If one follows the simple safety rules of firearms then the rest is trivial.

I can drive a standard too.
 
GarandTd said:
I don't have a 1911, but all of my semis with a safety have it in the same place(as a 1911) and they function pretty much the same. What am I missing?
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A lot of police departments issue semi-autos that have no safety, and the training of new officers typically doesn't include teaching how guns other than Glocks (or whatever their department issues) work. 44 AMP covered it, to a degree. Now ... think about an officer who carries a Glock for duty, and who doesn't like guns so he never goes to a shooting range or sees or handles any other kind of pistol. Suddenly, he has a 1911 in his hand and he wants to unload it.

"Gee ... the slide won't move."

"Yeah, you have to take the safety off -- it's that little lever under your thumb."

Now the safety is off. Officer Friendly shoots a Glock ... once a year, for annual requalification. His Glock has about a 12-pound trigger that has to move half an inch or more to fire. He's now holding a 1911, which has a trigger that only has about 1/16th of an inch of pre-travel (at a weight of ONE pound or less), and then effectively zero additional trigger travel at a typical pull weight of 4 to 5 pounds to fire.

Thanks, but no thanks. It's a whole lot safer in my holster than it is with Officer Friendly playing with it while he tries to figure out how to unload it.
 
I agree that the officers need not be handling and unloading the firearms of legally carrying, cooperative, and forthcoming citizens. It's just not necessary.
 
Skwib said:
Had a county sheriff's deputy stop me after dark a few years back. Speeding I think. I turned off the engine, flipped on the interior dome light, and had hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel. When he asked for my DL I told him that I also had a CCW license, and had a handgun in a holster under the seat, and asked him how he wanted to proceed. He asked me why I told him about my CCW and the pistol. I told him it was a courtesy, and that I wanted him to know before it came back when he ran the license. His response was something like "I didn't ask you, and I don't care".
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The same Sergeant told me once, when asking about informing him you are CCW(he doesn't 'require' the info, nor does the city/county/state require it)..a stopped gent very 'proudly(he said), said, "I am legally carrying a weapon!", his answer, "good for you, so am I"...YMMV and all that.
 
When I lived in Toronto Canada. I was 12 times in Court as an expert witness.
One was to do with a pistol, loaded, and thrown under the rear of a raised portion of a house.

A complicated situation! A RCMP Sgt. leaving from the Toronto Airport, with a young new recruit, the Sgt. She was driving. They were in the outskirts of Toronto.
Driving behind a luxury SUV, a young black guy driving it.
Emergency lights came on. The SUV pulled over, the driver rabbited! Followed by the two Officers. (And soon by local Police) after half an hour, the driver was found under some type of cover. He was transported to 13 div. No not stolen, leased.
A search of the SUV discovered a Kilo of powdered cocaine, after some discussion, the kilo was transported to 31 Div.
The search was thrown out, no warrant. After a long search of the back yards, a S&W 9mm pistol was located, loaded. The Police said it belonged to the runner.

In the witness box, I requested the pistol and ammunition. I guessed it had been made safe! The Police were all carrying Glock .40 cal duty pistols.

The S&W was minus fingerprints, any ones. The pistol locked back 16 rounds of hollow point Ammo. Also minus fingerprints! I hazard a guess that the S&W and all cartridges were wiped clean. Taking the Police prints off the gun and ammo. 31 Div had no supervisors after 10 PM.
The accused said it was not his! So gun and drugs were not proved to belong
to the accused. He walked. One of my Students was now a Police Officer in 31 Div, he is a Patrol Supervisor. He told me to keep out of that area!
10-4 said I. I sold those Glocks to TPD. I pushed for 9mm, but not allowed.
 
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You're not at fault as long as you were complying with what your laws require. Here in AZ., informing the officer is not required unless he or she asks. Unless there was something else that caused concern, it was not my practice to even ask. I made literally thousands of vehicle stops over 30+ years. I always assumed that drivers or occupants might be armed. This is the "Wild West" after all. Not required, but I always appreciated motorists letting me know they were armed. I just told them to leave their firearm wherever it was during our contact.

I observed a number of occasions where officers had taken control of weapons in this or that situation, sometimes just routine contacts, traffic stops,etc., and did not know how to make them safe. I was a firearms instructor and later an armorer, so sometimes got asked to unload the guns for them. The vast majority of officers have no interest, and little knowledge, about firearms beyond what they are paid to carry, train and qualify with. Some don't like guns at all. One implied that anyone with an interest in firearms beyond what the job required were, "Gun queers"....
 
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At a seminar recently, an attorney asked a question the planted axiom of which was that POs are expert marksmen. One could tell which of the guys in the room had much time with POs, because the ones who hadn't made the same assumption.

rock185 said:
The vast majority of officers have no interest, and little knowledge, about firearms beyond what they are paid to carry, train and qualify with. Some don't like guns at all. One implied that anyone with an interest in firearms beyond what the job required were, "Gun queers"....
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Indeed. Based on what they use on the job, a PO's most important piece of equipment is a good pen. He is going to use it all day, every day.

A casual hobbyist who finds some time to read up and regularly visits the range likely has much more trigger time with a wider variety of arms.
 
The reason someone, anyone is proficient with the handling of firearms, is simple. They use them a lot. A uniformed Police Officer in the course of his day, or night at work. Drives a vehicle, interacts with motorists, and on foot citizens.

But does nothing with their duty weapon, day in, and day out. Except to qualify once, or twice a year. Say for one, or two hours a year.
Imagine the proficiency in driving, driving for that amount of time, behind the wheel of a hi-speed motor vehicle?
Can anyone hazard a guess on why this is so? Cost! Cost for time off the street, use of duty ammunition, range usage, supervision with firearms instructors, and maintenance of that range. That's just the way it is. The most shooting that takes place in the life of an LEO, is during the Police Academy training. At the start of their carrier. Five ten or twenty years ago.

Then you have some officers who train on their own time or even compete in the gun games, IDPA or IPSC. And then wear the mantle of Gun Nuts!

The good news, the average armed criminal is not that proficient either.
 
My initial inclination was to only volunteer the information if I were in a state that required me to do so, but after making several long road trips across the country I have changed my plan. Despite preparing a list before I leave on one of these trips, showing whether or not each state requires me to notify the LEO immediately, I came to the realization that I am unable to commit all of this to memory. More than once as I was crossing a state line the thought went through my head of "Do I need to inform in this state, or not?". I would rather inform the LEO even if not required to do so than risk not informing when actually required to do so. So now my plan, even here in my own state, will be to hand the officer both my DL and my CCL and verbally state that I am licensed to carry a firearm and in fact am carrying at this time. I would never use the word "gun" and never start to remove the firearm from where it is unless instructed to do so by the officer. Now I no longer try to remember what I must do in each separate state. The exception to this might be if I ever found myself crossing through a state where my concealed carry is not legal, even though Federal law allows me to pass through such a state legally. I have no doubt that if passing through NJ or NY and I were stopped for a traffic violation, and voluntarily told the officer I was armed, that I would be arrested and locked up regardless of what Federal law allows.

Fortunately for me, in the 6 plus years that I have had a concealed carry license I have not been stopped even once for a traffic violation.
 
Brit said:
Then you have some officers who train on their own time or even compete in the gun games, IDPA or IPSC. And then wear the mantle of Gun Nuts!
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In my youth, before the girl I would marry had concluded that I was a viable improvement project, a different girl dragged me to a Christmas party at which every one of the couple dozen fellows but me was a LEO of some kind.

One older fellow (he seemed very old to me at the time, but was probably only in his 50s) talked to me a bit about the trigger work an armorer had done on a revolver. He did it in a hushed tone, as if he were telling an off color joke in church. It reminds me of the look over each shoulder I do when a friend or neighbor asks about shooting.

There may be valid reasoning behind POs regarding a hobbyists interest as unrelated to what they do. Another former PO who purported to be a decent bullseye shooter had two stories about using his side arm and in both he missed the human target completely.
 
zukiphile said:
In my youth, before the girl I would marry had concluded that I was a viable improvement project, a different girl dragged me to a Christmas party at which every one of the couple dozen fellows but me was a LEO of some kind.

One older fellow (he seemed very old to me at the time, but was probably only in his 50s) talked to me a bit about the trigger work an armorer had done on a revolver. He did it in a hushed tone, as if he were telling an off color joke in church. It reminds me of the look over each shoulder I do when a friend or neighbor asks about shooting.

There may be valid reasoning behind POs regarding a hobbyists interest as unrelated to what they do. Another former PO who purported to be a decent bullseye shooter had two stories about using his side arm and in both he missed the human target completely.
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The reason the hushed comment about the trigger was because carrying modified weapons, especially modified fire control, violates most department policies
 
JohnKSa said:
Used to be a legal requirement in TX. I'm not sure if it still is or not, but I do know that if it is, the penalty for failing to inform has been removed.

That said, I still hand over my handgun permit when asked for my DL by an LEO. It has always (save for one time) generated a decidedly positive result.

That one exception was years ago. I was in a wreck, in the rain. A guy crossed the centerline and hit me head on. I guess the trooper was unhappy about responding in the rain and had someplace better to be. When I handed him my permit (as was required by law back in those days) he asked about the firearm and when I told him it was in the car, he responded by saying: "Well leave it there! We don't need anyone waving a gun around!". So not exactly a positive response, but not really all that negative either.
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It is no longer a legal requirement. Also note in Texas it is legal to have a firearm in your vehicle, regardless of whether you have a LTC.
 
In Michigan it is, or at least was, a legal requirement. I have never had an officer express any interest or care when I have told them "I have a concealed pistol license and am currently carrying a concealed pistol." while keeping my hands neatly on the wheel. The closest any have come to caring is asking "where". Its been almost disappointingly mundane and professional.
 
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