Was I at Fault?

Recently had an interaction with a local LEO due to a boneheaded driving mistake. When I handed him my DL he asked if I was armed (My carry permit was under my DL). I answered that I was and my gun was under my seat. He then informed me that it was a courtesy to tell an officer if there is a weapon within reach. When he returned the DL, he brought it up again.

I was not aware of this. Is that common practice?
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I would guess that it is a common practice for the reason Mehavey states.

mehavey said:
Yes.
LEOs have a tough enough time these days on road stops, and a little proactive courtesy goes a looooong way.
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Even where it isn't required, it might be taken as a sign of good will depending on local culture and the individual PO. Summoning knowledge of law, local culture and an assessment of the PO individually might be a lot for someone to get their minds around in the context of a traffic stop.

My default mode is window open and hands on steering wheel, removing them only after I've told him that my wallet is in my coat and asking if he'd like me to reach in and get it. Most of the time, my sense is that this helps the situation overall.

If the local culture involves POs who are poorly trained or corrupt, one might be better off having that traffic stop end ASAP, and volunteering information may only make the stop longer and worse.

Local culture may figure into whether you want to carry with one in the chamber. In some jurisdictions, I would be leery about removing an arm in the presence of a PO. I would also share AB's concern about a PO removing from my person an arm of any sort (not just a 1911) with a round in the chamber.
 
I was stopped once for advancing through an intersection with an inoperable traffic light. I informed the officer of a loaded handgun in the glovebox. I also keep the insurance and registration in the glovebox. He thanked me for informing him, asked if I had a permit(I do), and told me not to reach for the gun. It wasn't brought up again after that. As much as I hate being stopped or getting a ticket, I think some [not so] common courtesy and some transparency can go a long way. Their job is hard enough. Every traffic stop is a roll of the dice for an officer.
 
In Florida there’s no duty to inform.

…my gun was under my seat.
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That might not fly in Florida – where concealed means concealed – in that the weapon is on your person.

Telling a LEO in Florida that you have a gun ‘under your seat’ might result in more than just a traffic ticket, whether you have a concealed weapon license or not.
 
hubris said:
Recently had an interaction with a local LEO due to a boneheaded driving mistake. When I handed him my DL he asked if I was armed (My carry permit was under my DL). I answered that I was and my gun was under my seat. He then informed me that it was a courtesy to tell an officer if there is a weapon within reach. When he returned the DL, he brought it up again.

I was not aware of this. Is that common practice?
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Depends on the officer. Some want to know, some dont. I never wanted to know.
 
Only been stopped twice, in the 15 years we have lived in Florida. Winter Park.
First, a pure collecting fines stop! Radar trap in a 35 MPH zone. Snotty young Officer. He just asked for License/Insurance. I gave him same I never spoke.

Second, two biker cops "WE are going to tell your son" I was 5 over. Driving a marked security vehicle. Jokers.

Now working undercover, me and a young partner, in an old little 4 door Chevy.
Orlando City Policer had our information and was supposed to tell the shift coming on duty, we were out there, and armed.
Just concluded our shift, just pulled in to traffic, red and white lights, a wee blip on the klaxon. I pulled to the kerb, put 4 ways on. Told my young partner, keep quiet unless spoken too! And hands-on the dash.
I turned the engine off, parking brake on, keys on the dash. Hands at ten to two. And windows down.
The most gorgeous female Officer approached my window, film star material.
"I was informed you were parked for over two hours on the Hospital parking lot" "We informed your Dept. that we were working under-cover, and we were armed. Company Lic# as well." "You know the drill well, you have been stopped before?" I used to teach it, I said.
"Good night Sir." "Be safe Marm, and good night" I said.
Then I leaned over and closed my young partner's mouth!

And last but not least.
A visitor to the City, had rented a VW SUV at the AirPort some half an hour prior to turning across the dual Ave, and with lights off, no turn signal, and hitting me almost head-on, into the left front wheel of my two-year-old Jeep, writing it off.
There was another accident being worked on across the road, I asked the paramedic could he ask one of the Deputys to please attend.

"Deputy, these young fellas want to take me to the hospital, my blood pressure is through the roof. But I am carrying, I also have 5 other Glock pistols behind my seat. All unloaded, but the one I am carrying is loaded".
"Do you know how to unload a Glock 19?" "Yes," He said with a sigh.
Orange County carries Glock .45 ACP Pistols. I knew they did!
I had called a Buddy who worked for the City, to come and pick these six Glocks up. Two were in a fanny pack, 3 in a locked case. Thank goodness I was not in my last Country, Canada.
 
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Aguila Blanca said:
Police officers consider it a courtesy ... to them. As already noted, some states require it. Where it's not required, it's up to each individual whether or not to inform in not asked directly. My choice would be not to inform.

Why?

Because I carry a 1911. In my experience in this corner of the universe, VERY few police officers know anything about the 1911 manual of arms -- manual safety; light, short trigger (compared to a Glock!); hammer; no magazine disconnect. I've read of and seen too many interactions where the officer decides he needs to take the motorist's gun and unload it, "for safety." Sorry, but my 1911 is completely safe resting in my holster, with the trigger covered, the thumb safety set, and the grip safety not depressed. It's a lot safer for all involved to just leave there rather than have Officer Friendly fumbling around with a gun he doesn't know how to work, trying to unload it to make it "safe."

[Note: My state does not mandate "must inform."]
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Yep, I could write a book about all the negligent discharges I have seen leo do during my years of service. At a neighboring agency, their firearms instructor shot a student.
One of the guys on my shift shot a hole in his patrol car door with his 870. Chief took it away from him and shot the ceiling in his office unloading it.
I love this video.
https://youtu.be/vfONckOPyaI
 
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In my experience in this corner of the universe, VERY few police officers know anything about the 1911 manual of arms --
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It isn't just your corner of the universe and it is isn't just 1911s.

Seems that many officers today (especially, but not limited to the younger ones) don't know much about firearms at all, other than the one(s) they are carrying.

Was watching of the "Cops" type shows a while back, and a pair of youngish officers stopped a guy, and took a DA REVOLVER off him. NEITHER of them knew how to unload it. (and apparently, neither did the camera guy). They had to call their Duty SGT, and wait for him to arrive (about 20 min) while the gun lay on the hood of their car, with one of them watching it like it was a coiled rattlesnake...

I don't expect cops to be firearms experts but I do expect them to have enough training to be able to "make safe" (unload) any of the standard firearms they are likely to encounter during the course of their duties, rifle, shotgun, or pistol.

If they don't, I consider it a defect in their training.
 
44 AMP said:
It isn't just your corner of the universe and it is isn't just 1911s.

Seems that many officers today (especially, but not limited to the younger ones) don't know much about firearms at all, other than the one(s) they are carrying.

Was watching of the "Cops" type shows a while back, and a pair of youngish officers stopped a guy, and took a DA REVOLVER off him. NEITHER of them knew how to unload it. (and apparently, neither did the camera guy). They had to call their Duty SGT, and wait for him to arrive (about 20 min) while the gun lay on the hood of their car, with one of them watching it like it was a coiled rattlesnake...

I don't expect cops to be firearms experts but I do expect them to have enough training to be able to "make safe" (unload) any of the standard firearms they are likely to encounter during the course of their duties, rifle, shotgun, or pistol.

If they don't, I consider it a defect in their training.
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I know just about everything about a 1911, Thank you.

About half the SWAT teams carry 1911.
 
GA law may have changed, but at one time under the seat, or in a pocket in the door was not legal. If the gun was visible, as in in the open in a seat or console it was legal. Or if it was not visible it had to be inaccessible. That meant inside a glove box or console with the door closed. With a permit the gun could be carried on the person. Under the seat, or in a door pocket was considered out of sight, but still easily accessible.

The rational was that during a traffic stop an officer could SEE any firearm that was accessible. If he couldn't see it, then it wouldn't be easily accessible. This was primarily directed toward those without a permit. Permit holders could of course carry concealed, but the way the law read the permit holder had to have the weapon on their person. Not under the seat.

Since about 2009 or 2010 carry laws have been changed a lot, and for the better. They may have changed this, but I'm wouldn't bet on it not still being on the books. I don't carry under the seat anyway so it isn't something I've kept up with.
 
LEOs are just people.

It sounds like he didn't like the fact that you didn't mention it to him directly. I tend to accept you handing him your carry permit as polite "notice". Either way, I wouldn't think too much of it so long as you abide by the laws of your State regarding carriage of weapons and interaction with law enforcement.
 
No Fault; However !!!!

He then informed me that it was a courtesy to tell an officer if there is a weapon within reach. When he returned the DL, he brought it up again.
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Why play guessing games with yourself and just present your CCW, Regardless of your states laws. It is definitely a courtesy and appreciated….. ;)
Much like saying; thank you, yes sir and have a nice day. …… ;)

L.B.C. and;
Be Safe !!!
 
Had a county sheriff's deputy stop me after dark a few years back. Speeding I think. I turned off the engine, flipped on the interior dome light, and had hands at 10 and 2 on the wheel. When he asked for my DL I told him that I also had a CCW license, and had a handgun in a holster under the seat, and asked him how he wanted to proceed. He asked me why I told him about my CCW and the pistol. I told him it was a courtesy, and that I wanted him to know before it came back when he ran the license. His response was something like "I didn't ask you, and I don't care".
 
AFAIK, in Arizona you do not have to inform the officer that you are armed. However, now that we hare a constitutional state, has that law been changed. I never gave it much thought but the other night while in traffic school thanks to a ticket and accident I was involved in, the instructor brought up a couple of points. One, now that the stat is constitutional carry he estimate two out of every three people stop[ed for a traffic violation is most likely armed. He didn't say there was any change in the law but he did say one should notify the officer that he is armed. The way he said it makde it sound like it was now a mandatory thing.
Paul B.
 
Paul B. said:
AFAIK, in Arizona you do not have to inform the officer that you are armed. However, now that we hare a constitutional state, has that law been changed. I never gave it much thought but the other night while in traffic school thanks to a ticket and accident I was involved in, the instructor brought up a couple of points. One, now that the stat is constitutional carry he estimate two out of every three people stop[ed for a traffic violation is most likely armed. He didn't say there was any change in the law but he did say one should notify the officer that he is armed. The way he said it makde it sound like it was now a mandatory thing.
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Arizona state law:

13-3112. Concealed weapons; qualification; application; permit to carry; civil penalty; report; applicability

C. A permittee who carries a concealed weapon, who is required by section 4-229 or 4-244 to carry a permit and who fails to present the permit for inspection on the request of a law enforcement officer commits a violation of this subsection and is subject to a civil penalty of not more than three hundred dollars. The department of public safety shall be notified of all violations of this subsection and shall immediately suspend the permit. A permittee shall not be convicted of a violation of this subsection if the permittee produces to the court a legible permit that is issued to the permittee and that was valid at the time the permittee failed to present the permit for inspection.

D. A law enforcement officer shall not confiscate or forfeit a weapon that is otherwise lawfully possessed by a permittee whose permit is suspended pursuant to subsection C of this section, except that a law enforcement officer may take temporary custody of a firearm during an investigatory stop of the permittee.
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https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?docName=https://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03112.htm


For other states, here's a summary from a group called USACarry. I have no affiliation with them, and I can't vouch for the accuracy of their information ... but it's a start. Of course, I started with Arizona, and they got Arizona wrong on their map, so ... caveat emptor.

https://www.usacarry.com/duty-to-inform-laws/
 
What could you have done better ???

His response was something like "I didn't ask you, and I don't care".
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You have little or no control, over what he said/says; Only what you said and did, which was the right thing to do by my measure. ….. ;)

L.B.C. and;
Be Safe !!!
 
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