Warning shots where into, how do bullets behave

[seb5]

Parabellum, I made my post as honest as I could and without any sarcasm towards you. I was simply stating that we are in a different environment and giving examples. I will say that for being U.S. educated you ask some surprising questions. In most locales if you can use a warning shot you could use lethal force. If lethal force was'nt required and you used a warning shot in my area you could (would) be charged with aggravated assault. It's almost alike to shooting to wound vs. shooting to stop. I guess you could use a warning shot and just say you fired, missed, and the perp ran off. Sometimes it's all in the way you articulate it. As an attorney I am sure you know this well.

I will also say that I have never, ever heard or seen anyone teach or reccommend this tactic in law enforcement or CCW. Of course that could just be in our litigious side of the pond.

 

[XavierBreath]

I usually try to stay away from warning shot threads, but this one has endured so long I feel I must point out something that is being missed.

When a civilian in the US pulls a gun, he is employing lethal force whether he fires the gun or not. This is the concept that makes brandishing a crime and armed robbery a felony. If you are not justified in stopping a lethal threat with your firearm, you are not justified in pulling it out of it's holster in anger. It's a simple legal issue.

Ricochets and the risks to bystanders are very real, but even if you did not commit an unintentional killing, you are just wasting ammo that you very well may need.

The only warning shot that has any merit in my book is a shot fired by a warship across the bow of another ship. The entire premise of a warning shot is to gain the other guys attention. If you are in handgun range, you can do that with your voice if you deem it necessary.

One further thought.

Is there data or info on how defense bullets (9x19mm) like HydraShoks or EMFJ behave when fired into a street or a sidewalk?

You could research this yourself and publish your results if you like. The makeup of different types and thickness of pavement as well as the softness of tarmac related to temperature can be analyzed as well, to insure that everyone can preassess data and achieve optimum results with their warning shots.

 

[JohnKSa]

same applies to a bullet after it has been deformed and changed direction by something like a street

Not really, if a expanding bullet hits something very hard (or a water surface) at an angle, very little energy is absorbed and the bullet doesn't tend to deform much. That's why ricochets are so dangerous.

Come to Texas son, if you can use deadly force, you can fire a warning shot.

That's mostly but not completely true. You can still be held responsible for negligent behavior even if deadly force is warranted. Firing across a public road is one example. I recall (but can't document) a case sometime ago in TX in which a citizen came to the aid of an LEO who was about to be killed by an attacker. He fired across a road to dissuade the attacker. He received a commendation, but also received a criminal citation for firing across a public road. The officer who he saved paid the fine. Had the citizen killed someone in a passing car, he would have been criminally liable.

Generally the rule is that you're not liable for MISSES in a valid deadly force scenario, but if you fire a shot negligently, there is no protection afforded due to the fact that the scenario warranted deadly force.

 

[Para Bellum]

Grammar, NATO

seb5 arabellum, I made my post as honest as I could and without any sarcasm towards you. I was simply stating that we are in a different environment and giving examples.

That's the way I read it. No hard feelings and I honestly thank you for your time and thought. (I was just making a little fun in my reaction to loosen a cramp in this thread)

UFO: I'm sorry you have trouble remembering the content of your previous posts. You said: "so you are right because those who agree with you are more than those who don't."
I followed with:
"Yes they do Para Bellum.....don't they."

As far as I undestand English grammer, that still makes no sense. Should be: "yes they are, aren't they", right?

Glad to be of assistance to our NATO allies.

I am Austrian. Austria is neutral. That has nothing to do with a gearbox. In a nutshell: We are not member of NATO. Suprised?

And to all those who say that warning shots are the end of the world, the question I asked was: why and under what circumstances.

 

[Jungle Work]

John,
Not in my wildest dreams can I imagine that a citizen comming to the aid of a LEO would be filed on for "firing across a road way". I believe that's one of the Urban Legends of the Internet. I do know that a citizen (CHL) came to the aid of a Houston Police Officer in a gun battle against four bank robbers and saved the officers life. It was in the middle of an intersection of two streets, most definately in the "roadway". There are exceptions to the law of the State of Texas to cover ememgency situations.

Also, you are correct in your assumption that if you act negilently and cause the death or serious bodily injury of another person you can be prosecuted. But that's why you should be sure of what the bullets going to do before you ever fire any round, warning shot, target range, hunting, or in self defense. Remember, Stupid is as Stupid does.

Jungle Work

 

[TheeBadOne]

I like yours, TheeBadOne. No questions about angles of ricochet off concrete. :barf:

U.F.O.

Perhaps you missed my point entirely. I'll go into more detail.



Blam! (thug meeting deadly force criteria is shot center mass) "I am warning you, stay down and don't move, or I will shoot you again!"

 

[Denny Hansen]

Short answer to a four-page thread.
Warning shots are a bad idea and in most locales are illegal.
This one's run its course.

Denny