back to where it all began
allow me to summarize, since I started this thread:
1. My question has not been answered yet, because nobody had any ballistic data on Hydra-shok or EMFJ 9x19mm bullets fired into a street or sidewalk.
2. Some gave thoughtful and wise posts and
3. Some here apparently carry a gun and can't even read
Jungle Work,
You and Para Bellum go ahead and break most of the laws of the land and ignore advice from the best minds in self-defense training.
I have no idea what this extra terrestrian ("UFO"?) is talking about.
By the way. Nobody who has a brain of his own need to rely on other "authorities". If something is smart and works, so it is and does. The fact that you have a "Jeff Cooper"-stamp on anything doesn't make it wise or useful. The content, not the source or cover counts.
Also, while the bullet may not STOP in a small human, that doesn't mean that a significant amount of it's energy hasn't been absorbed. So even if it goes through, its wounding power has been significantly reduced.
same applies to a bullet after it has been deformed and changed direction by something like a street ect, I asume. In Germany there have been of innocent bystanders getting killed because (well placed) 9x19mm police bullets overpenetrated.
ufo,
Sweet heart, I spent 23 months in ground combat in the Airborne Infantry in the Republic of South Vietnam (68-70). I spent 33 years in LE working at every thing from a National Park Ranger, Police Patrolman, Detective, and a Chief of Police. That don't make me smarter than anybody else, but just for the record,
I turly enjoyed this one
)
The incident I described happened to an officer who went into a home on a domestic call on a disorderly juvenile and upon entering the bedroom was confronted by a 12 year old girl who had a butcher knife in her hand. Her mother was in the bed room and the girl was a nut case and advanced on the officer. He fired a round into a water bed to stop her. Maybe I would have shot her, maybe I wouldn't. He controlled the situation. She stopped and put down the knife.
very useful information. When I fired my warning shot, it would have been justified to kill the dogs. But I was not neccessary. The situation could be controlled otherwise. The place I fired into was totally safe in my judgment. And that is all you have in a fire-or-not situation: your own judgment.
UFO said: if you're encouraging people to fire warning shots, you're just.....plain.....wrong.
Please read what you talk about: Wo encouraging people to fire warning shots here and how exactly?!
Having trouble finding ANY reputable, civilian, self-defense professional, anywhere in the country, who'll back up your warning shots are wonderful mantra?
I assume you always have your cell-phone in a standing open line to
"a reputable, civilian, self-defense professional, anywhere in the country," and if you feel the need of drawing you get their advice before. Maybe that's why all the secret-service people have these little earphones?
Clearly, there are cases when a warning shot can have the desired effect. You've given a good example. BUT, that is NOT the issue. The issue is whether or not it's PRUDENT to fire a warning shot.
I agree with the first sentence. But not with the rest. I am sorry if I didn't post the question the way I ment to ask it: I wanted to gather knowledge on bullet behavoir (9x19mm, EMFJ, Hydra-Shok) on different warning-shot targets. That has not been answered yet (really), but would be the basis, for the decision whether a warning shot can be prudent.
Never launch a bullet unless:
1. You are 100% sure of your backstop.
OR
2. Your life is in immediate danger if you don't fire at your attacker.
I fully agree. And I still wonder, how an 9x19mm EMFJ or HydraShok would behave fired onto...
I also think it's interesting to read some of our Austrian attorneys questions and posts.
Thank you.
It's obviously a different environment over there when an attorney is advocating warning shots.
I still am not aware of advocating warning shots
neither did Jungle Work (a fine gentleman as I have learned here, by the way). What we did say, is that a warning shot might be a smart choice under certain cirumstances. The truth is rarely pure and never simple (Oscar Wilde). So the circumstances are the issue of this post. The 12year old mentally disordered kid with a butcher's knive and a water-bed in reach was a perfect example for a warning shot. As other scenarios would be against a warning shot.
If he were here I'd say he was trying to increase his business.
That one made me smile.
I am sorry, I do business, corporate and civil law only. No crime and no divorce.
Thanks everybody for the thoughts and time. Stay save and beware of the Mall-Nijas
)))))))
(aka Mr. Warning Shot)
Sometimes you've to play devils advocate and look at all sides of the question. I would never reccommend a warning shot in civilian law enforcement or CCW, it's not legal in many locales anyway. However, I can't say there would NEVER be a time when I would'nt do it. That's a pretty strong statement, NEVER.
.