Warning shots where into, how do bullets behave

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Para Bellum

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There is an excellent thread here "would you get involved"
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163237

This raises the question on warning shots. I once fired one achieving the perfect result. Attacker :eek: and me :D

I was lucky to wander in a park and be sure that the lawn wouldn't make my bullets ricochet. But what on the sidewalk, street or in a mall?

Is there data or info on how defense bullets (9x19mm) like HydraShoks or EMFJ behave when fired into a street or a sidewalk?
 
Yeah, they behave unpredictably... Same as if they hit a pebble or sprinkler head in a lawn.

Firing warning shots is a bad idea. :rolleyes:
 
Bad idea, always. If you pull your gun and the BG sees it and runs, fine. Any shot should be at the target.....if you have justification.

U.F.O.
 
lawn

if they hit a pebble or sprinkler head in a lawn
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thats why I fired in about a 45° angle away from me. worked perfectly (little sissy 9x19 EMFJ blew a hole into the lawn the size of my fist).
 
I believe some states actually have laws against firing a warning shot. IMO, if you are going as far as having to fire a warning shot, the target has all intentions of harming you and obviously they are too crazy to care that you have a gun.
 
Dogs e.g.

what about dogs. I don't shoot a dog just because it freaks our. I also don't risk being torn apart by it. So, a warning shot seems to be a good dog deterrant.

....and the question was: How do bullets behave when fired into a street or sidewalk, and data or info?
 
PB, I believe it was breifly answered above. There is no way to know how it will react. The angle it can be shot at, the rouch suface being a non-flat area, size of bullet and force, how far you are to it...It's just not predictable IMO. In other words, data would be moot.
 
what about dogs
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Carry OC. If it doesn't work.....shoot them.
....and the question was: How do bullets behave when fired into a street or sidewalk, and data or info?
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No legitimate training facility teaches how to fire warning shots because firing warning shots is a horrible idea. Figuring out terminal ballistics is hard enough without having to worry about how a bullet will bounce off concrete. As previously mentioned, it's also against the law in many states.

U.F.O.
 
I believe some states actually have laws against firing a warning shot.
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Buddy of mine was a manager/bartender and tried to attract the attention of police in the vicinity of a crime. (Misdemeanor, IIRC.) He tried to attract their attention by firing his revolver into the air. They arrested him on the spot.
 
45 degree angle away from you, Para? Maybe you're missing the point here - no one is worried about you. It's the kid down the street you don't see that takes the bullet after it ricochettes off that hidden sprinkler head that we're worried about. Shots that hit outside of a target area are unpredictable and uncontrolled and therefore dangerous to the public at large. (though maybe a banked lawn would be as good a place as any for an impromtu backstop - but concrete and pavement is NOT)

Anytime someone shoots in self defense they need to be able to justify that thier life was in danger. Otherwise they should not have shot. Warning shots don't quite meet this criteria - if your life was really in danger, why didn't you shoot the threat? That's what the lawyer for that hypothetical kid's folks are going to ask in the lawsuit. And he's going to be asking the shooter, not the threat who ran away into the shadows at the sound, never to be seen again...

It worked once - no one got hurt. Great. Next time, if there ever is one, hopefully you'll remember that Mr. Murphy isn't always on days off...

Dogs are just as much a threat to life and limb as any bad guy. If they need shooting, I believe a threat is a threat regardless of the number of legs it has.
 
PinnedAndRecessed said:
Buddy of mine was a manager/bartender and tried to attract the attention of police in the vicinity of a crime. (Misdemeanor, IIRC.) He tried to attract their attention by firing his revolver into the air. They arrested him on the spot.
Click to expand...

Although he meant well, that seems a bit silly. Was it actully inside of the bar? If it was outside, then surely the use of his weapon to aid someone in danger would have been a wiser choice.
 
into the air

..surely is a bad idea. The bullet comes down with almost the same speed it went up. many people die or get hurt by "celebration shots" fired in to the air and coming down again in arab countries...

I therefore see a point in that arrest.

Hey yorec:
great website. but the gun seems a bit exaggerated if wou worry about ricochets. What wouldn't you penetrate with it? An M1-A2 Tank? ;)
 
It always makes me cringe in the movies, the cops are chasing the BG down a city street, and they fire a warning shot! :eek: That warning shot would go into the nearest skyscraper! Chances are it would not hit anyone, but if it did you would be going to jail for manslaughter at the least.

That being said, shoot when neccisary, and shoot to kill.
 
There was once an officer in the Agency I worked for that fired a "Warning Shot" into the ground in front of some perps who were going to kick his fourth point of contact. I jsut so happended that it hit a rock and one of the perps fell over, DRT. Boy had some splainin' to do.

Now that I'm a citizen, there might be a time I use a "warning shot", but then again I'll know where the shot will land.

Jungle Work
 
No warning shots are a bad idea, I have seen to many "accidents" happen.

Firing in the air? Is even a worse idea, and illegal here in Arizona.
 
I'm sure in my state it's illegal to fire warning shots-- just about everything else is so why not this? Sidewalks, air, curb, dog, etc. Foolish thing to do -- fire at the threat or don't -- no two ways about it.
 
Myself and 3 of my friends when I was in highschool went out into the woods with 3 22's and a 12 ga. We were just shooting cans and the such. One of my friends crossed a stream, looked down into it and Says "Oooohh Fish!" As soon as the rest of us heard this, we bolted. We knew what was about to happen. He brought the 12 ga to shoulder and fired at the water. I won't forget the sound of all that shot that came flying off of the water into the trees around us as we were laying in the dirt. Needless to say, we were pissed. Doesn't really apply to the warning shot, but the same principles apply.
 
In colorado, the standard that allows you to draw (brandish) a afirearm is the same that allows you to use deadly force, so if you have reason to draw by definition you have reason to fire.

For many reasons stated here warning shots are a bad idea. And for the average civilian, depending on local laws, unless the BG turns immediately (and I mean IMMEDIATELY) and runs away, just shoot him.

This has also been stated around this site by some, but one thing a lot of people don't understand is that while you might feel safe holding your piece on a guy 8 or even 10 feet away, it's amazing how fast a desperate person can react. If he decides to move on you you might/might not get a chance for only one shot. And since he's moving, you might miss. Or if he's on adrenalin or drugs, he might now notice he's hit right away. Now he's got your gun.

I know when I'm watching movies and the good guy has the bad guy at gunpoint, and the bad guy keeps moving forward until he can strike, I get really pissed off; learn the lesson from Hollywood -- if you have a BG at gunpoint and he's not immediately acuqiescing to you or running away, neutralize the threat before he gets your gun and neutralizes you.

My .02.

BTW -- technically it is pretty safe to fire a gun STRAIGHT into the air. When the slug comes to a complete stop and starts to fall, it falls with no more energey than a slug dropped from that height. And because of air pressure it reaches its terminal (maximum) velocity very quickly. That said -- the terminal velocity of a heavy slug of aerodynamic lead could be sufficient to do some bodily harm.

Whenever you see those arab wedding parties shooting AK's straight into the air, a few seconds later the lead starts coming down on them. Nobody generally gets hurt.

now firing your gun anything other than straight up, like at a 45 degree angle ... in that case the bullet will has some pretty good trajectory on it when it comes back down and can definitely still hurt someone. Seems like every year there's somebody killed by a freak bullet fired at a high angle a couple of miles away.
 
Why? If you are justified in a warnig shot, your justified in shooting the target, just shoot the target, and not the air, waisted bullet, no hearing, and possability of injuring external party
 
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