Vid link :Is my 9 a bear stopper? answered

I'm not sure it's fair to apply the results of this incident to a bear attack.

The bears involved here could have handled a loose cow without resorting to the ridiculous amount of gunfire involved, their cars could have easily penned the thing in until someone who had some intelligence arrived.

It's impressive the gunfire that the poor cow soaked up, but apparently the shooters involved had no idea where to shoot to kill the evil bovine, or perhaps it was a zombie cow.

The only thing that this video shows me is that if you randomly shoot at some large animal, more than likely missing half the time, yes it will continue to spread it's evil agenda of "Eat More Chicken!"

Yes, the video shows that one must aim and place shots for effect, but a couple of idiots unable to dispatch a cow with two full mags are hardly a poor advert for the 9mm or .40cal.
 
The real question is why is anyone surprised with the results shown in the video?

Not sure how many that responded have spent time hunting, but handguns in the normal carry calibers are very poor stoppers for any kind of large animal. Yes shot placement helps, but some animal skulls are like armor plate and even a heart shot can be a challenge.

The only thing this video shows is what most already know. For large animals there is a world of difference between a rifle and a handgun.

Handguns (in our normal carry calibers) are not great for stopping power. Not counting the poor judgment of the cops, the results in the video are as expected.

Is my 9 a bear stopper? answered

No. Try a 30-06 or 12ga. slug for better results.:)
 
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IMHO and truth be told, a handgun should not be the first choice for HD (for human threats much less animals). Handguns lack sufficient knockdown power compared to other available choices. I understand in some cases, it's the only option available and indeed 'can be' effective given many different variables. Yet I think a shotgun or even small carbine is a much better option (at least I sleep better at night). My handgun is obviously my primary PD/CCW option but entirely secondary at home.

-Cheers
 
What really bothers me is the fact that he was tracking the bovine with his pistol with no care to the world as to what was directly beside or behind his target


Exactly, the video might be deceiving but it looks like a home, or other structure was in the line of fire of the last couple of shots at least. Cows have pretty tough bones as I recall from visiting my Aunt & Uncles farm, at that range I could imagine one coming back at the officer if it hit in the wrong place...


For a bear even with a .44 magnum or something of that nature I am not 100% sure I would be comfortable.
 
No a 9 mm in the leg, tail, ears and belly are not good stoppers. I've got to figure if a bear was headed my way to kill me, I probably would hit maybe 2 out of those 4 places and get eaten alive, let alone hit a vital area. I'll stick with hiking with people who run slower than I do :o
 
Absolutely poor form on the cop.
But I think instead of making the observation that a 9mm won't work I think you need to so to school on how animals react to being shot. the cop's first barrage kill's the animal look at it's nose when it stops in the ditch. it's blowing blood out it's nose. They're dumb animals and haven't wached enough TV to know when the cop shoots your suposed to fall down.
I've seen enough animals take a rifle shot that obliterates their heart and lungs take off like it was a starter pistol to be fooled into thinking any pistol will stop a charge with a COM shot.
I also would point out that breaking a limb doesn't seem to slow it down enough that it's not faster than the cop's on foot.
While I'm not saying a 9mm would be enough to stop a charging bear, your fooling yourself thinking this vid shows anything like that.
 
mavracer said:
While I'm not saying a 9mm would be enough to stop a charging bear, your fooling yourself thinking this vid shows anything like that.

Yes, that's the best short correct answer.
 
red ryder bb gun

oh oh please mr let me go huntin a grizzly bar like boone and crocket w my bb gun

if you have to ask it's not big enough and dont post
 
I do not have a wealth of experience fending off bears.Only one.
I was in AK,at the junction of the Nowitna and Yukon Rivers,200 miles from the nearest road.I was sleeping with my former spouse in a little 4 lb Moss tent,the kind with 2 hoops,.The bear put both front paws on my wife,and bit her through the tent at the lower part of her right buttock.She made a fuss and woke me up.I had my short bbl Win 97 full of slugs inside.I opend the door and he stuck his head in.I had not had coffee yet.With regard for not breaking my shotgun,I bumped him across the face and told him to go away.
He did,for a bit.But he was not leaving.
Hollering had no effect.He did not flinch at a warning shot.He just kept his eyes on me,no expression,and casually was moving closer.
I had looked at bear skulls in the museum at Fairbanks.There is spongy bone in the sinuses right up into the cranium.
I put the white bead on his nose and shot.The bear went down and came right back up,shaking his head.I focused on the centerline of rotation in his neck and shot again.He went down.
AK law require turning in the head and hide of an SD bear shoot.In the process,we examined the slug performance.
The first round took out the lower front teeth,the slug broke up to lead cornflakes and penetration was not much past the back of the throat.
The second slug broke up in the neck vertabrae.
This was a black bear,6 ft 6 in nose to tail.
I have also killed a cow elk with my .44 mag handgun.It was a 240 gr softpoint load.It broke up and stopped in the neck vertabrae.It did not exit.
From this very limited experience(which certainly trumps all those with NO experience) I have come to the conclusion that the projectile needs to be capable of penetration.
No hand gun will be overly powerful,though a degree of portability(so you will have it with you)and controllability is good.

A heavy 45 Colt load,or a .44 mag,I believe would be useful with hard cast heavy bullets.

In a shotgun slug,I would look to the premium ones designed for penetration.

I suggest any load designed for the SD handguns for SD is going to have limited penetration.It will ,hopefully,open up,do max trauma,and not exit the far side of a torso.Maybe,sometimes.

Any large solid creature,bear or cow,has more bone and tissue mass on the near side than both sides of a human.

If I had no other choice but a 9mm ,I'd go with a 147 gr FMJ purely for the penetration.

What I detect in some of the proponents of carrying handgun set up for SD on humans when the situation might be a bear,there is some illusion around how powerful the person feels with that gun versus the effect on the bear/cow.
And maybe,maybe,the folks who talk about how precisely they will place their shots an a moving bear at 12 feet really will place their shots precisely.Thats nice.Some will.
But,I think maybe most LEOs train with their handguns as much as a lot of folks who write opinion.And I think most LEO's know wild and poorly placed shots are a liability.
And I think most LEO's are more accustomed to,and prepared for a sudden,unexpected need to draw and use their handgun.
I think most of us have seen plenty of video footage of LEO's pulling their handgun and dumping a mag in the general direction of the earth and sky near the threat.
Yeah,maybe the folks who write opinion will place the shot behind the ear and can use a 22 just like slaughtering beef.Some guys are good.
But it might be most folks in the real crisis will not perform much different than most LEO's.And your Gold Dots or Hydra Shoks or Silvertips or Talons arent going to impress the cow any more than the ones in the video.

But,you do whatever makes you happy.
 
I know a vet that regularly dispatches cows with 9mm if he can get close enough to put the bullet in the right place.
If you cant put the pistol to its head no mater what caliber then use a rifle.

The description was enough for me.
 
My local slaughterhouse uses a .22 Mag. rifle to put down our steers - with a federal meat inspector present much of the time.

All I have to say is that those officers are complete LOSERS! Simple punk-assed losers!
 
I understand what you are saying.I have been involved in on ranch buthchering and the .22 to the forhead was the method.I get that..
I would have posted this in Tactics and Training if the intent was to discuss the police conduct.
Actually,there is a post there now.

While it appears there is room to criticize the cops,I would probably not make a post for the purpose of criticizing cops.

I made the post to illustrate that a handgun/load combination that might be an ideal balance for stopping humans might not be ideal if used on a creature that has more muscle /bone in the first 3 inches of their body than the full torso of a human.SD rounds that will go from hide,through ribs and meat on a cow and then continue to the vitals would be considered "over penetrating" on human targets.IMO,this sort of ammo would be very disappointing on an up close bear who wanted to hurt me.It might make him mad.The same round with a penetrating bullet might have a chance.

Yes,.22's are used for dropping beef routinely.If you choose to carry a .22 for self defense in bear country,that is up to you.It is not what I could recommend .
 
This isn't in USA(?) Cops just wanted to shoot at something that wasnt a human so they wouldn't get fired. Poor gun safety, at the start of the video cop fires at cow moving near another cop. Bad aim wow, if you are going to kill a cow walk up to it and give it a headshot so it doesnt suffer. Shoot it through the eyes to the brain.
 
city cops.... :rolleyes:

If he had been the local sheriff he would have went to his truck and got a rope and walked it back to the correct side of the fence.

I think that cop needs to pay for some beef.

when I was a kid I had to put down a few cows for slaughter. My dad had me use a 38 special. Never needed more than a single bullet per cow.
 
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Poor calf. :mad:

Considering the number of times Cops have let humans whom they shot bleed out, I am not going to assume that “someone” came along and humanely dispatched the calf.

Sure does not fill me with confidence in the stopping power of a hand gun.
 
This link is to a report where a senior police officer in Gatineau, Que. defends the shooting of the two cows/cattle.

The spoksman said: "An hour during which every attempt failed, and during which one of the animals, who may not have appeared dangerous to witnesses who had not seen the preceding 60 minutes, charged vehicles, moved a trailer by its sheer physical strength, and managed to once again escape, right there in the city near a school and busy roads."

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStorie...-defend-shooting-cattle-111102/#ixzz1chpz1SFq
 
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