Urban Survival?

I had to read the original posting twice before I understood it.

Most BGs are lazy. They rob their parents, the next door neighbor, the neighborhood grocery store.

Our gangs? Shoreline Crips and the V13 Gang. V13 lives within walking distance.

So what is the challenge by the poster? What is really to discuss? Why the challenge of dealing with 100 gang members?

Maybe it is GunKid again.
 
Limitations of strength in numbers

I agree that in order to battle urban dcay and crime the good people must stand up for their neighborhoods "take back the streets" etc. But that is far easier said than done. Group dynamics is a tactical discussion in and of itself, as is its corollary mob dynamics. The problem for the good citizens is one of will. Do they (we) have the unified clarity of vision and dedication to action to make a difference. I am reminded of a situation from my youth. Myself and a small number of friends were having a few beers in an empty lot in a neighborhood near us. Unbeknownst to us, the area was having problems with vandalism. A large group of homeowners, their friends (I guess) and teenage boys approached us and told us they'd had enough of the problems and were going to make an example of us so that all the other "dirtbags" and "punks" would know to stay off their block. Lucky for us, they were only armed with bats, and the like. If someone had a gun that night there would most likely have been shooting. I do not know what possessed me, but I put myself between my friends and the mob and explained that while they would certainly beat us down, I would crack the jaw and knock the teeth out of the first guy who swung at me. You might win, but at least one or two of you are going to the hospital with me, I explained (rather vehemently). Funny thing, no one wnted to be the guy who got his jaw broken in the group. They were not Sopranos, gang-bangers, etc. If they were they would have just shot me and laughed. But to these homeowners, most of whom really would rather avoid fighting, the sight of a young, tattooed weightlifter was enough of a deterrent to make them pause. They just sort of said in unison--just get out of here. So we left. I was very lucky that night, all it would have taken was one pyscho tougher than me and maybe I'd be dead. The point is that a group must have the will to face down and go to the mats with their adversary, and many do not have the will.
 
As I'm fond of saying, in my humble opinion, neighbors banning together to protect their community, and defend it, however necessary, before things get that bad, is the key. Take neighborhood watch about 10 steps further and keep your neighborhood however necessary. I'm not religous, but, as you receive - give it back 10 fold...you're message will get across.
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The Big part of your message is "before things get bad" The suburb I live in now is 50% people who fled bad urban areas and 50% people who lived in the area for generations when 20 years ago the area was nothing but farms and woods. The cops here are very "gung ho" and we have zero tolerence for an BS in our neighborhood. Criminals go to places were people don't care, they don't want to go to a neighborhood where everyone is looking out for their neighbors and will be quick to call 911 if they see something bad. If gangs try to set up shop in a neighborhood and nothing happens and noboy cares, they will continue to grow and get worse. Like weeds soon the will be too big and too many to root out.
 
Dennis2 where do you live?
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From another one of his posts in a different thread:

I live in a dangerous neighborhood in East St. Louis, Il.
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Would you brave souls bet your hand gun against a gang hundreds strong and well armed, with your family, at a fixed address you live at?
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I don't recollect that anyone has ever said that here. You seem angry for some reason. I think you should use this anger to energize your neighbors. Band together to protect your neighborhood if you can't move. As previously stated, safety in numbers and all that.
 
Same stuff goes on in the burbs as the urban city, theyre just like dogs if you mind your own buisness and dont stare or show fear you have nothing to worry about.;)
 
Dude you need to move. Not having the money isn't an option, it's an excuse. I thought Columbus was getting bad back in the late 80's with the Blood's & Crips and didn't want to raise my kids there. You think I had the money making 6. bucks an hour? Depends on how bad you want out of it. Where there's a will, there's a way. I sold off all our treasure (crap) and made enough to get a cartop luggage carrier and just went. I rolled into C Springs in the middle of winter with 1/2 tank of gas, two toddlers & wife and 25 bucks cash. No place to land. First stop was at a pawn shop. Pawned the two handguns for enough to buy a motel kitchenette for a month and hit the streets looking for work. I was working 3 days later and we lived right through it.

I don't know what you're hoping to hear people say to you but it sounds like you know what really needs to be done and are resistant to it for whatever reason. You bet it's going to be the tough way but it'll also get you out. So it's a leap of faith. Good, it builds character. Maybe you think God's gonna let you & your family starve? Hah!

Think back poorman. You ever miss any meals? Thought not. The only people who miss meals & such are the drug addicts who make that poor choice.. Things have a way of working themselves out. Just do it.

Dwight...LOL! Good post.
 
Limitations of strength in numbers
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It's a good post, LICCW, but again your looking at a tactical solution; people confronting a bad situation head on with force on force. A mob of homeowners trying to show bravado and beat down some punks is a vigilante mob; there's a time and place for that, but probably not to fight simple vandalism.

What I'm talking about is the "broken window" syndrome. If you have an abandoned building with no broken windows and cleaned up, it may stay that way forever. But once one window gets broken, if it stays broken, the building looks run down and suddenly more people are throwing rocks. And pretty soon all of the windows are broken. And then it makes the whole neighborhood look run down, and then people are breaking windows in other houses. As has been proven a million times in the real world, if you fight the little crimes you reduce the big crimes.

So you live in a bad neighborhood, and the cops don't care because when something does happen everyone around turns a blind eye and doesn't want to get involved.

Talking with your neighbors, you may discover there are other like minded individuals as yourself. So you start a program of neighborhood watching -- running video cameras, taking turns watching, and always calling the police for trouble. And then supporting the police en masse when they show up, so the BG's involved don't have a single complaintant to look at. Yeah -- gang bangers have no problem intimidating, beating or killing one person or family. But when a whole community stands against them and makes it clear that reprisals will bring more calls to the police and more convictions ... things change.

Back in the violence of the 80's there was a drive by shooting in a bad neighborhood in Denver that resulted in a little girl getting killed. Right afterwards the gang bangers drove around, making eye contact with everyone on the streets and throwing gang signs to let them know they'd better not talk to the cops.

But this was the last in a number of shootings, and for whatever reason this neighborhood had had enough. The police had locals lining up to give descriptions and the shooters were quickly in jail. The more locals that stepped forward, the more that found the courage to do so.

If one person had reported in, he or his family would be dead. Since they all reported the situation in, the gang decided to move the worst of their operations out.

On this site we like to think of the lone warrior -- the Charles Bronson -- dropping all the bad guys and cleaning up the neighborhood. But you only see that in the movies for a reason; it doesn't work in real life.
 
Charles Bronson

GarandIllusion: Good post. Good points. I think that as firearms owners, many on the board are taking responsibility for their own protection. many of us CCW for business or just personal protection. But that's just it, we spend a lot of time training for that scenario in which we must defend ourselves or our family, but do we spend enough time discussing how to group together with neighbors or how to protect our neighborhoods, organize watch groups etc? Many post that the firearm is a last resort, so maybe more of our tactics and training should include community based measures and advice on all the things that should be done before we resort to using our pistols. I don't know, I'm just sort of thinking out loud. I feel prepared to defend my family or my person, but could I defend my block? My neighbors if need be? Or am I just another Charles Bronson wannabe, planning on going it alone?
 
Good points LICCW!

I'm afraid I, myself, am a Bronson wannabe. But that is because I am fortunate to live in a quiet cul de sac in a nice neighbhorhood. If things go somehow terribly bad, like a Katrina/New Orleans thing, I'll have to try and organize my neighbors in a hurry. But I will do that, and I would do it now if a gang moved in down the street.

Fortunately, I have enough firearms and ammo to arm several of my neighbors.

If I'm carrying in public, I'm not sure how far I would go to defend others. I don't mean to be heartless, but in a situation like the Seattle Mall shooting my first goal is going to be to get out of the line of fire and save myself.

And if I find a safe place I might just hunker down there and wait for it to end. Not that I don't want to save my fellow man, but I'm seriously afraid of not shooting well and getting killed myself, or getting killed by the police, or accidentally shooting an innocent.

Besides ... my experience with violence is it generally happens very quickly, is over very quickly, and it can be difficult to figure out exactly what's happening in the time you have.

Good luck! I hope you find yourself to be a community leader and neghborhood defender!
 
How is ms-13 any different from Hitler ? No difference in my opinion.
as Ben Franklin said something like this " We must all hang together or surely we will hang separately" We all need to work to to put things back in there place. And this means starting with the ACLU. IMHO the ACLU should be charged with treason as a enemy against the US Constitution.
This may get me kicked out of here, but I don't care, It's how I feel as a American.
 
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I live in LA, so gangs are a given, but people in my neighborhood know who I am. They don't mess with me, I don't mess with them. It works out well for everybody. If there is a problem 10 guys from my reserve unit live with 15 min of me, several with 2-3 minutes. Same goes for them of course. Gangs are not going away, but I am not going to let them cause problems for me.
 
gangs are a given, but people in my neighborhood know who I am. They don't mess with me,
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Just live in fear of that sharp stick with poo on it. Huh, B.O.? :D

Yeah ... that's the way it is in my city too. The bad guys know me and they leave me alone.
 
03-06-2006, 10:40 PM #9
gac009

wrote:
"
Its hard to say, the mighty USA is become infested with urban gangs and the Govt. dosent seem too interesed in putting a stop to it. City streets arent safe anymore and there really arent a whole lot of places left to go...."
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It sure would have been nice to apply all that money and energy spent in Iraq applied to cleaning up our own streets. :confused:
 
We already spend far more on failed social programs than we do on the military.

More money won't help. Our cities are crumbling becuase of social programs, loss of personal responsibility and hard work.
 
*I
03-08-2006, 11:05 PM #51
jibjab

wrote:

How is ms-13 any different from Hitler ? No difference in my opinion.
as Ben Franklin said something like this " We must all hang together or surely we will hang separately" We all need to work to to put things back in there place. And this means starting with the ACLU. IMHO the ACLU should be charged with treason as a enemy against the US Constitution.
This may get me kicked out of here, but I don't care, It's how I feel as a American.
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I guess it all depends upon ones personal prejudices. For me I support the ACLU. I was in secret operations with the USAF in the 60's. The work I did still remains "Highly classified" per my inquiry two years ago. In that operation I was contaminated with ionizing radiation ... "I Glowed in the dark". The USAF identified me as a radio repairman, for whom there was no record of exposure to radiation. Do I an American citizen, who served honorably in the armed forces of the United States, have a right to equal access to "Due process of law" ? The ACLU fought, for me and thousands of veterans who served. There were only 143 servicemen and one civilian working in that secret laboratory ... a mere drop in the bucket. I see it as the ACLU fights for the minority opinion ... fights that even the mere 143 have the right to "Due process of law". The government is large and powerful ... the 143 are not a very large group. The ACLU lost the battle, of establishing the right of "Due process" for those who were exposed to ionizing radiation in the service of their country, but the ACLU fought the good fight.

So, as I said, my views are prejudiced by my experiences. The ACLU fought for me, when others turned their backs. I may not like some of the cases they get involved with, but then I guess that is the mission of the ACLU ... to fight for the minority opinion.

The question you seem to raise is, "Do the constitutional protections as written, and ruled in establed court cases, apply to individual members of the gangs you identified ?" It turned out to not apply to me, a member of the "Gang" I worked for. That really hurt. However, I hope all those personal civil liberties, that I served honorably to support and defend, actually do apply to each and every member of gangs, such as MS-13. I also contribute to the ACLU to fight for such prejudices.


jibjab, you see it one way, I see it another. Some day maybe that will be ok with everyone.
 
Hook,

It's safe to say we do agree, to disagree . While I may respect you as a individual, I march to a different drummer. Best wishes
 
Is it just my imagination or is it that these large gangs are comprised of mostly hispanics? There was mention on this post that many of them are militants from south america.
Quite frankly my opinion is that when the police(or maybe even a vigilanty group) find these gangs gathering in large groups they should go in shooting leaving little or no survivors at least a few times as examples of the peoples/governments intolerance to such activities.. Maybe if a few gangs were eradicated in this manner no one would want to start or be in a gang for fear of being next.
If the police can't make your home safe then maybe you and any others in your hood who are sick of living in fear and can muster up some balls should organize,arm up, train up and take back your freedom from localized oppressers.
Do you have the manhood to demand some thing be done by your city and state officials or orginize some kind of nieghborhood watch group with others who are like minded? If not then maybe you should puss out and find some way to get out.
 
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