Urban Survival?

The best weapon you have against gangs is your mind. Gangs are made up of different individuals, who join for many different reasons. Some are violent career criminals, some are wannabes, and same join for protection.

Gangs get their money from crime, mostly drugs, but also theft. If you want to stay clear of a gang, don't mess with their drug dealing, don't advertise you have something they would want to steal, and don't publically insult them.

I have heard many people say that they know someone in a gang and they therefore feel somewhat safe, because they believe that they have a "relationship' with that gang member or are even "friends" with them. Don't count on it, I've known a lot of gang members over the years. Many would smile and be quite friendly to me. But I knew that most would not hesitate, if I met them on the street, if I had something they wanted, to do whatever it took to get it, including taking my life.

Gangs are dangerous, treat them with respect, as you would a wild animal. Most are emotionally immature and a lot are also socio-paths, oops sorry the proper term now a days is anti-social personality disorder.

Personally I treat gangs like I would a pack of wolves or a bear in the woods. I try to stear clear. I try to stay aware of what is going on around me. I try not to draw undue attention to myself. I treat them with the respect that I give to everyone else. I have a plan to protect myself and my family. I practise. I realize that if I must resort to the use of lethal force, then a lot has already gone wrong.

Don't plan on being Rambo, you are not Rambo, not even Rambo is Rambo. If you have a family, taking care of them comes first. Your family is more important than money or your pride. Do whatever is necessary to take care of your family, including moving if it is prudent.

Gangs can be defeated, but not by shooting it out with them. You may win a battle or two, but you will lose in the end. If it ever came down to shooting it out with a member or members of a local gang and you survive, don't hang around, move.

Defeating gangs comes from building a strong local community, from working with authorities - building a realtionship between the police and the local community, and from working to support and build strong famiies. As long as a gang is a natural part of a community it cannot be rooted out, when it is an alien presence in a community it can be removed like a cancer.

Individual gangs can go through explosive growth cycles - as has MS 13. But when that happens inevitably there is a slowing and a dilution of the initial leadership and energy. From my very limited knowledge about Ms 13 it appears that many of it's original leaders had military experience and training - but I doubt that the vast majority of the gangs new recruits have the same or similar experience, and I doubt that the gang in general has the organzation to effectively train its members.

Stay safe. :)
 
MS13 here in VA

There are some MS13 gangs operating here in VA. But they are armed with machetes mainly. Very little or no incidents of shoot outs with police and other civilians.

However, other gang members and past gang members, drug dealers etc. routinely get into machete / hand chopping incidents with MS13 gang members here. (They are in a neighboring town.)

There have also been incidents of drug deals gone bad that turn into robbery / homocides.

But for the typically urban gun owner who follows the rules - no incidents to report of. So pretty safe in this area.

Take precautions / use good judgement in where you hang out, who you hang out with. You will be OK.:D
 
Dennis2 said:
Urban Survival?

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I'm just curious? All you gung ho cowboys seem to live in the "burbs" and are ready to declare war, if need be?

Whom on this forum lives with the MS-13, Bloods, Crips, etc.in their neighborhood like I do? Would you brave souls bet your hand gun against a gang hundreds strong and well armed, with your family, at a fixed address you live at? Charles Bronson in Hollywood movies would not go against odds like that!

MOVE OUT you say? Great, you have the money and resources to relocate to another area? Hell NO! It's difficult to even pay the utility bills, much less finding safety...

Shall we discuss the preceeding?

Why are asking all us gung-ho cowboys what to do?

Get off the internet, sell your computer, work overtime and get out of there. Re-read CraigJS's post.

Why would you think a bunch of gung-ho cowboys want to discuss anything with you?
 
I grew up in a poor area in Philly and for most of my life I lived in an urban setting. I have see and done more bad things at 16 than most men have in their lifetime. My father, due to economics was stuck and could not move out, but he took every opportunity to get us out of the city, to go camping, fishing, and hunting. I made a VOW to him that I would get out of the city. TRY as hard as you can to get out. Most of the large cities in America a pits of hopelessness and crime, that is getting increasingly worse. How can you raise a family there??? Your right you cannot fight the gangs.

You could easily find an apartment in a suburb with a lower crime rate just outside of where you live, or you try to buy a "fixer-upper" house. I rather live in a shack in the burbs then a mansion in a bad city neighborhood. Buying a house is expensive now, but overall it is sometimes cheaper to live and work in the burb vs living and working in a city. There is still crime in the suburbs, but it is a lot less. I live only 30 miles away from Philly. I go to sleep and hear nothing but crickets and wind, instead of gunshots and yelling (I actually couldn't sleep for a month when I moved, it was too quiet). I can actually use the local public school system and my kids actually learn and not worry as much about getting killed (like I did). Cops around here actually show up in less than 5 minutes if you call 911, even for minor stuff.

Don't be quick to judge the "country boys" some rural residents are poorer than poorest people in the city. There is less jobs in the deep "boonies". There is also more corruption and in some rural areas, big meth problems.
 
Where is everyone going when there's no place left to run??
While Dennis' post is a little harsh, I suspect it's out of the frustration of being backed into a corner with no (perceived) escape.

Neighborhood deterioration and a rise in crime is something that hundreds of thousands of people face every year. It's a very real problem with a very real relevance here.

I faced the same problem 15 yrs. ago, and my sister is still facing it. I'm fortunate; my income was such that I could afford to move into a better neighborhood, but my sister, even with my help, isn't. Gunfire is a daily occurrence in her neighborhood, and I worry every day. I have to be very careful about visiting her since I'm well known as a cop. My appearance there could be interpreted as her being a snitch, and she could end up having that gunfire directed at her, or have a Molotov cocktail thrown through her window at 4 am :( :mad: .

I'm frustrated as well, and while I restrain my anger here, it resides within me, none the less.

What's the answer for someone that can't move? That's what we're here to discuss ;) .
 
Mack59, Great post. It's funny how pride can make normally smart people talk of doing such crazy things like fighting gangs. I have the latest in firearms technology and tactics that would overwhelm most gangs in an armed confrontation. I shoot competitively to practice the quick engagement of multiple targets. If forced to get ugly, I can get very ugly. That said how can I defend against someone willing to assasinate me? How can I insure my families safety once the poop has hit the fan? Quick answer I can't.........so move.

Once my kids are grown and gone then I can stand my ground and die fighting the unwinable fight. Until then vote for politicians that are tough on criminals and not citizens. Move to the safer area ect.
 
Excellent response Threegun!
I also think alot of people let pride in their abilities, tactics, and weaponry fog the horizons of their realisitc thinking... You CANNOT DEFEAT a gang by yourself no matter how many guns you have...Manpower is manpower....

The same is true with defending yourself unarmed.....I train with people that could beat the sh*t out of two or more people if confronted on the street....But what about a gang of 5 gangbangers or more? As the opposing manpower increases the mob mentality increases, and your chances of coming out of it uninjured/alive decreases dramatically! Ask any one who's a trained fighter (boxer, blackbelt) will tell you they always try and avoid a fightttt, b/c eventually you're gonna get smacked in the teeth no matter how good you are... ESPECIALLY when it involves multiple Bad guys..
 
Once I started seeing the local gang bangers spray paint a cops badge number on the sides of buildings, I moved well out of MPLS!
 
I live here in Philly where on average one person a day is getting murdered. Heck, we had a woman get shot twice in the stomach a block from where I live, and I live on the good side of the tracks. I would have to agree with what some of the other posts say. Be aware of your surroundings, try to avoid the fight at all cost, and save up!

Even if you get into a confrontation with some gang banger and win he will have an 80 year old grandmother and 4 sisters out in front of the news camera crying about how he was wronged and was trying to get his act together. You see it on the news all the time.

Be safe and do your best to stay under the radar.
 
What I am getting at, is when all the good guys leave, and the's no one left to rob or steal from are they going to stop, or come to where you live for the goodies.
When do the good guys (I think we still outnumber them) band together and take back our country.
I'm not Rambo nor do I want to be, but I will not be driven out of my home.
 
I agree moving to safer location is the answer if you can possibly swing it -

Of course, when the town is 'used up', they'll eventually spread to the burbs and then to the surrounding countryside. A massed, coordinated, attack on a isolated farm or ranch will net them a nice little stash of goods and give them a base of operations. With trained military personnel directing them, you think they'll just stay in urban areas? They'll go where the pickings are best and an isolated farm or ranch is pretty inviting.

As I'm fond of saying, in my humble opinion, neighbors banning together to protect their community, and defend it, however necessary, before things get that bad, is the key. Take neighborhood watch about 10 steps further and keep your neighborhood however necessary. I'm not religous, but, as you receive - give it back 10 fold...you're message will get across.

When the Los Angeles cops were getting their asses kicked, and were outgunned, by the gangs in L.A., Darrel Gates went on televison and made a public statement saying that "If all the gangs members of Los Angeles understood is 'gang mentality', then the Los Angeles Police Department would become the biggest, baddest 'gang' the gang bangers had ever seen"...and they did -- cops started kicking ass, taking names and the department bought bigger and better weapons -- something the gangs understood. The gangs started fearing the cops more than other gangs. It helped take back the city...

Whatever you decide - best of luck.
 
Cry me a river dennis, if you have a computer your not that poor. One of the great advantages of moving to a rural area is homes are cheap, so why dont you stop whining, and move. I am sure you can find a job somewhere, and its not like your giving up some high paying job now from what you said about not paying utilities.
 
Shall we discuss the preceeding?

If you don't feel you can defend yourself against a threat, call 911. They will assist you as soon as they can.

Regarding the can't afford to move comments: If you HAD to move, say you ran over a gang member accidentally and they threatened to kill you. Could you scrape together the money to move under those circumstances? I'll bet you could then. And thus, you could now too.
 
While you may stand a chance in a gun fight with a small group of gangbangers, or with some luck, tactics, and technology, a medium group (10 or so); you can't win every time. You can't defend against the car bomb planted on your car, or the molitof (sp?) cocktail that is thrown at your house at 4 a.m., or being shot in the back in line at the grocery store.

Best thing to do is to move; and in the mean time don't piss anyone off, don't advertise you have nice stuff, and don't look like a snitch (don't let anyone with a badge come near if you if not absolutely needed; I know that sounds weird, because the police are on our side; but if you are painted as a snitch you could be killed).

I wouldn't advertise that you have lots of guns as a way of deterring them; but it wouldn't hurt if you carried open on your own property. Criminals prefer unarmed victims.
 
Speaking of MS13...

Their roots stem from military rebels in El Salvador.

FYI, M.S. is a completely American invention. It beginnings can be found in the streets of Los Angeles, a baseball diamond to be exact. As of 2003 M.S. had known organizations or affiliations in 36 states and 6 foreign countries. Yes, M.S. has a Salvadoran taste to it. Because the gang was founded by a small group immigrants for El Salvador. How do you account for 6 foreign countries then, you ask? Because the United States Immigration and Naturalization people have a nasty habit of deporting illegals who get themselves in trouble with the law. Unkown to us at the time we were also exporting the gang itself.
 
The good people of Iraq (the ones who want to stop the bloodshed and get their country back) have the same problem. Every time they turn a blind eye to the insurgent/terrorists more bombs and guns go off. If they're found out as a snitch, their whole family is killed.

If you live in a neighborhood like that you've got to ride it out. Be cool, don't piss off the wrong people, and try to make things better when you get a chance.

One man alone is a nail to be pounded down. But if you can find other like minded individuals and start working together to clean things up and get the bad guys put away, that's when change begins.

Having a handgun is great against an unexpected attack by strangers. But it's not a good way to fix the ongoing problems of the neighborhood you live in.
 
One man alone is a nail to be pounded down. But if you can find other like minded individuals and start working together to clean things up and get the bad guys put away, that's when change begins.
An absolutely outstanding statement! There truly is strength in numbers!

But.... one thing I would advise is maintaining a very low profile until the neighborhood is united, well armed, and has a game plan. Resistance before that's accomplished will make you a target, sure as water runs downhill.
 
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