Uberti 1858 quest for positive lock.

Uberti 1858 Remington New Army Stainless Steel Target photo documentation

Doc Hoy:

Thank you for your lightness of heart, your knowledge and your focus in this thread. It's a pleasure to be introduced to everbody and learn so much on this first go round. We enjoyed your company. Let's head back outside and flip those chops!

mykeal:

Thank you for keeping us grounded in reality and bringing our expectations into line with reality so that when we do get the sweet deal we will appreciate it much more. When all of this comes down to brass tacks these are serious matters, thanks for remaining serious. You make me think, Doc makes me laugh and the others are just as strong and unique characters as any of us. A fine lot of gentleman ... (and ladies).

Thank you for the compliments on the photography as that has been a passion of mine for many years both at the professional and the amateur level.

As I talk about the photography techniques I used all of this is more or less specifically technique for Macro photography of a technical nature.

I could have spent much more time and effort in the sessions but I am a believer that both quality and content are specific for an audience. I could do as well as the vendors pictures but that would ruin the whole point of the thread. I wanted REAL and I wanted a touch of that "shop look".

When I get my beauty, I'll pull out all the stops like ClemBert did, that's a nice shot ... and everybody seems to have some nice ones as well.

Lighting:

4-foot, 2-tube, shoplight with T-8 fluorescent tubes. The tubes were "daylight" tubes, a little more expensive but worth it for photography. The interior of this shoplight is sprayed flat gray.

I had a small pulley and stout string attached to the end of the shoplight, (which was suspended from the cieling), so that I could pull the string and pulley to raise and lower one end of the shoplight. This gave me the ability to change the lighting on the subject very rapidly so that I could find a "sweet spot" of light to work with. The pulley was connected to a hook in the cieling.

The shoplight was about 2-3 feet from the subject, (surface). The backdrop was a rough weave, black shirt on top of a cardboard box. The 12'x16' room I was in has 4 windows that are about 3.75 feet wide by 1 foot tall and they are on the very tops of the wall, the cieling borders them. So they are kind of like skylights. They let quite a bit of ambient light in to mix with the special fluorescent tube.

Most camera settings on this nice Sony Cybershot, (10 megapixel), were automatic. I did change the light metering to pinpoint, (spot metering), and then back again to "center spot" metering as needed and some of that was experimentation. Photographing stainless steel in Macro mode is a fun challenge. I also used both pinpoint or "spot focus", as well as "center focus". I had the camera half in auto mode so to speak or "Program/Auto" mode. Anything I did not directly set manually is taken care of automatically.

For many of the over 400 pictures I took, (and posted only the best), across 3, 1-2 hour sessions ... I handheld both the revolver or cylinder AND the camera. I didn't use a tripod. I do tend to "make" a tripod with my fingers to mold to the surface I'm near.

I made one tool. I cutout, (from the whitest cardstock), a square just larger than the camera and set the lens down near the middle and traced around the lens. I then cut out a hole for the lens, cutting on the inside of the line so the hole would be nice and tight. I fed the lens through that hole so that I then had a shield in front of the camera. The stainless reflects EVERYTHING even the warmth of fleshtone nearby. This allowed me to work very close and directly in front of the subject. Importantly, the cardstock acts as a "close reflector" and assisted in getting the deep shots into the cylinder chambers as well as other places.

Only use the cardstock shield/reflector if your camera meters and focuses "TTL or Through the lens". Most modern digital cameras are TTL.

The actual action I use to take a picture in Macro mode is very much like squeezing off a round when you want to make an accurate "shot". I literally hunt my photo down, I stalk it ... and I bait the trap.

I get in position, take a few breaths and settle in, close my eyes, relax, open my eyes, readjust ... then I gently 1/2 depress the shutter of the camera and allow it to both focus and get a light reading, I then release the shutter and "move the whole body in a bit tighter". I become the camera, :D ...

All this time I am breathing regularly and aware of my heart beat and pulse.

I 1/2 depress and release the shutter a few times, making sure that the focus will be true and spot on. I then take a photo and watch for the "quick review" on the back, and then continue taking photos until I begin to fatigue in that position. I 1/2 depress and release as needed to support my confidence during that series of shots.

I then stand up, stretch if needed, take a few breaths and go directly back to that position and do another set of photos. I'm not determining whether I'm getting good shots or not, I'm confident in my position and lighting, etc ... the magic just "happens", you have to get enough shots to increase the chance of getting the magic.

The real patience is when you are in position 1/2 depressing the camera shutter to determine if the shot is going to go well technically. The rest of it is relaxed control moving only the muscles necessary to depress the shutter. The rest of it is "task".

After each session I reviewed what I had and made some mental adjustments for the next session.

I come from a family where Mom was a professional children's and portrait photography and I was in a color darkroom working before I had my first date. I hauled her equipment around on jobs for "allowance money". I was photographing dioramas at that time and hanging them in the local hobby shops using a Nikon 35mm. My Dad was a photography nut also.

In 1999 I took Macro photos for a wireless communications company of over 5,000 cellular accessories for one of the first websites to have images of cellular accessories for sale. They were promptly pirated by other companies. :D I've been digital ever since. The Nikon Coolpix 950 I took those pictures with cost $800.00. The Sony Cybershot I took these with cost ... $229.00, it's one of the good ones from that series. The coolpix was 2.1MP.

I look forward to seeing more photography on The Firing Line and hope my contributions will continue.

Hopefully, my next session that I bring to this website will be of my sweet Remmie.
 
SLIDESHOW - Uberti 1858 quest for positive lock.

Here's a link to a slideshow of all the images I've included in this thread to date.

Just keep your booger hook off the bang switch and click the nice picture.

:eek:

 
mykeal said:
This thread has a very interesting part to it that hasn't been mentioned, and I for one would very much like to hear more about it: the photography is superb.
Click to expand...
+1 very nice pics, indeed
When I saw the shots of the dirty cylinder, my first thought wasn't Yep, that's a dirty cylinder; but, How'd he do that?
CajunPower, thanks for sharing some of your techniques.
 
rusty from italy posted some photos from the Uberti factory which are interesting.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=258335&highlight=uberti+factory

Just because a revolver has powder residue in the chambers and a scar or two doesn't necessaily mean that the pistol was a return.
While it could have been, maybe it was test fired at the factory or proof house and not cleaned afterward.
A small slip of a worker's screwdriver or attempt to fine tune a brand new revolver while still at the factory could also result in cosmetic injury to a new but imperfect gun.
I think that if a gun on the production line is found to have a problem by an inspector then it is noted that it requires attention, even if it appears to be finished. Then maybe after it's fixed a test firing is performed as a safety check.
Every new traditional rifle from Spain & Italy that I've ever bought had powder residue left in the barrel from the factory. Even one from Thompson Center. That may not be the case with revolvers but that doesn't mean that it can't happen.
Factory workers make errors and can mar up guns just like anyone else.
Any manufacturer is capable of making lemons and including some of them in a large order of guns. Imagine if workers were only paid by the number of units that they produced? Then it would be up to the inspectors to decide if a gun is finished well enough to ship or if it needs more work.
Dixie may or may not be guilty of passing on a gun that was already rejected once. For all we know, Uberti put that revolver in the box and passed it on to Dixie that way.
And I don't believe that Dixie sells more than a fraction of the number of revolvers that Cabela's does. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cabela's sells 5000 revolvers for every 100 that Dixie sells. Dixie seems to have a lot of older stock until it eventually sells out. And maybe they buy a larger batch of guns than can be quickly sold as a way to fight constant wholesale price increases.
 
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Dirty products received - and shipped out

It seems that Gordon Williams reviewed a stainless steel Uberti at Dixie and complained about the issue I have ... that the revolver he got had black powder residue "all over it".

:eek:

If Dixie knows about this issue, the least they can do is inspect and clean the pieces as they receive them. To let them lie on the shelf for a year with BP residue on and in them is ... not good. And I just can't understand this part of the equation.

If Dixie is going to publish this fact on their website ...
 
And I don't believe that Dixie sells more than a fraction of the number of revolvers that Cabela's does. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Cabela's sells 5000 revolvers for every 100 that Dixie sells
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I don't doubt it with a 45.00 price difference for the same revolver
 
Exploring the options for exchange.

An email was sent today to explore the options for exchange.

Thank you very, very much to all of you who participated in this thread so far. I have benefited and profited from the experience and knowledge of this board's membership.

When I receive the exchange I will make a photo documentary of it and post it here. I have a few new shots and angles I want to do also and I'm looking forward to those sessions.

What I'm REALLY looking forward to is a nice Remmie.

One option was to have the "exchange" revolver sent from Dixie to Jay Strite for basic timing work and an opinion from Jay Strite, and then sent from Jay's to me.

I offered to pay half of what Jay charges which is about $90.00 round trip for a basic timing job.

Another option was to give the gunsmith on staff more time to look through their stocks for a unit that locked up tight and showed some level of consistent quality throughout the mechanics and cosmetics of the revolver.

I told them I was in no rush, no hurry, to receive the exchange and was willing to wait as much as a month for the exchange.

I've got plenty of learning and studying to do before I get the exchange so that I can take advantage of it and share that knowledge with my range buddies so the interested can have these in their safes as well ... locked up tight.

:D
 
Dixie Refunds - Strikes Out

Dixie got the revolver back via UPS last Friday.

I got an email this afternoon here is that email from the gunsmith:

Sir,
We have received and inspected the Uberti revolver SS1180 #A73676. We will be issuing a credit to your MasterCard for the purchase price of $375.00. We are very sorry that the gun does not meet your expectations.
We have decided not to exchange the gun for another one. Based on your letter of 4-13-2010 that was sent to Kelly we do not feel that we can supply any of these revolvers that can meet your expectations. I have been selling and repairing black powder revolvers for over 30 years and have learned that there are no perfect reproductions. Each gun is timed at the factory by a gunsmith but one can always find something that is not perfect about it. Most of our customers understand this and they would have given the gun you returned a 5 star rating. A gun can be perfectly timed but after the action is worked some the parts will begin to wear and set in which will result in the timing changing a little. Most black powder revolvers allow the cylinder stop to come up a a little early to insure lock up and this will result in the cylinder being scratched at the notches.
Overall tolerances for black powder revolvers are not as tight as they are for cartridge guns and this also allows the guns not to be as tight. It does not mean they are not safe but they just start out not as tight. Part of the reason for this is black powder residue. Without these tolerances the residue would cause the action to jam up.
We are really sorry that we cannot meet your expectations.
Thank You,
Jamey

===========================

I'm VERY curious as to why they would not simply pick an exchange piece and take some of my hard-earned money to gunsmith the exchange. They simply don't want to have anything else to do with me. They really are making no effort at all to work with me.

I offered them a premium price at the get-go, then offered to pay their gunsmith to file and sand and stone a bit on the bolt, no big deal right?

And you CAN get a tight lock up on one of these revolvers and still leave room for fouling of the base pin, etc ... one just has to get the offset forces correctly fitted.

A gunsmith named Jay Strite does this regularly and bases his nationwide reputation on just that.

Per my letter, now they are not willing to even send me another one in exchange so I can do as I stated in my letter to them and send it to Jay Strite.

I told them that without the pit on the frame and a clean gun that had not been sitting on the shelf for over a year with black powder residue in the barrel that would be acceptable and I would just send it directly to Jay and spend $150 on it.

I think these folks might just be burnt out and looking for folks who are easier customers to deal with. Regardless, I spent $35 in shipping for this lesson.

I think I'll start looking at a forged frame Uberti in blue. I may take a ride to Texas Jack's in Friedricksburg, Texas and pick up a little sweetie in Houston and make a date of it.
 
My perspective is that if this was a representative sample of the exchange that Dixie would have made had they been willing, then if you had been happy enough to send that to Jay Strite without reservation, then you should have just kept this first one and sent it to Jay Strite.
It wouldn't have made any notable difference except you already knew what the flaws were from having scrutinized it so closely, moreso apparently than Dixie ever did, that's for sure.
That's probably their take one it since they're honor bound to take back the next one too if you return it back to them.
Between Dixie and Uberti, they didn't meet your expections. Dixie only once but Uberti more than once. So they know that a % of their guns have defects. So they don't want to send you another one any more than you wanted to keep the one that you returned.
When push comes to shove they don't want to hand pick their guns. They're on sale and obviously they don't agree that the gun had an unacceptable flaw. If they did then they would probably have exchanged it for you.
If you had seen your own pictures of the gun before you had bought it, would you have still bought it to send directly to Jay Strite?
Well, that's what you're asking them to do all over again.
It will be the same situation except that you will be sending it to Jay Strite.
Then why not just send this one to Jay Strite?
Because you don't want to accept the flaws and they don't want to accept liability for the next flawed Uberti either.
That's the difference between a large outfitter like Cabela's and the smaller Uberti dealers.

CajunPowder said:
I decided I would not risk ordering a Pietta again so I ordered an Uberti of the same type from "T's" except I upgraded to the target model. The rear sight fell off on the second shot. I thought I might lose a range buddy to multiple hernia brought on by hysterical laughter.
I sent it back the next day, big disappointment. I got a prompt refund. Generally it was a little better than puke and we weren't scairt to blast a bit with it. The barn door survived.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you why didn't you get a replacement from Taylor's instead of a refund?
I don't know but maybe the rear sight could have been secured in place with Loctite thread lock? I don't know why you didn't want to work with Taylor's when they owed you some satisfaction. I don't know what the problem was with the sight besides a screw. Could you tell us why you refused to work with Taylors and let them address the problem?
I only mention this as an example of what comes around goes around.
You chose not to work with Taylor's which is your right. And now Dixie is choosing to not work with you which is their right.
So let me also ask you this, between the Taylor gun and the Dixie gun, which one was better or which one would your rather have kept?
Which one was received in better condition?
I think that I would have asked Taylor's about the option for an exchange or satisfactory repair. But you chose not to, based on a defect which I'm not sure what it was except that it was a loose screw.
Those are the points that I'm trying to make.
If it were me I would still consider asking Taylor's what they could do for me, especially since you still want an Uberti. Maybe they still have the original gun and fixed it. I believe that they sometimes sell them at a discount with notations too. Or maybe they would have worked out an exchange. Did you ask them?
In no way should my thoughts be interpreted as anyone being at fault besides Uberti. And there's always room for improved communication between retailers and customers, i.e. - what's the problem, can it be fixed, what are the options, will you give me what I want? Some places make the extra effort to work problems out and some places don't, often on a case by case basis.
I know that you will eventually get a good gun that's satisfactory.
Having some bad luck only means that good luck is lurking somewhere around the corner and vice versa! :D
 
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loose woman n tight revolvers ?make a date of it?

you texans never give up,get you a r .o .a .or a horse pistol walker if its got to be ltalian,anyway the italians figure 1858s should look like they were made in 1858,by drunk gunsmiths,those italians drink a lota wine,and are allways singin oooosssoooommmeeeooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! while Thinking about the good the bad and the ugly pistols.:cool:
 
Patience and Luck; OOOOooo SOOOooo LO ME OH !

Articap:

Good observations and insight. I returned to Taylor's because I was headstrong and disgusted and had a big long list of other vendors to try. I didn't understand the markets or the people who support these markets.

Now I understand much better where I should be in respect to all of these things.

As it stands now in my research, Taylor's is actually the leader in many different areas. There are very few complaints on Taylor's as well as Texas Jack's. At least the next one goes on the range's credit card as we are all taking turns. :D

I called Taylor's today and put a backorder in for a stainless target Remmie and we talked about my expectations. I'll hope luck is around the corner.

andrewstorm:

I've worked with a lot of italians in the restaurant business and they do like to sing O' Sole Mio, loud, out of tune, and after much Chianti. Wow, the nightmare picture I am getting of the factory floor, LOL! It has the makings of a Far Side cartoon, yeah?

Maybe one day I'll order one of these things and there will be an empty straw basket of Chianti inside instead of a Remmie and we'll see a news article that an Italian had a replica revolver removed from his stomach.

What kind of irks me at this point is that Uberti, Pietta and Benelli/Beretta know we have deep affection for these historical things and they take advantage of that if not knowingly then in the course of business.

USFA should JUMP on this market and make a deal with Uberti or Pietta and order parts and just finish and tune these things, mark them up, and the reviews would be rave and glowing. People would be able to say they have a USFA Remmie or Colt BP, etc ...
 
I want to say this gently, because it's neither a criticism of CajunPowder nor of Dixie.

Back in the roaring bubble days before the dot com meltdown, I ran the technical support department for a big computer company that's no longer around. Every now and then we'd come across a customer who, for one reason or another, just wasn't able to be satisfied. To be honest, most of the time the problem was unreasonable standards. Sometimes it was because we'd genuinely screwed up a few times in a row. Whatever the reason, these few and far between folks would, unfortunately, have to be "fired" by us. That is, we'd do whatever we could to get the computer back and refund their money.

Now, for your part, CajunPowder, I want to go out of my way to point out that I'm not being critical of you. I think that you laid out your requirements very simply and clearly. Your cards are on the table, so to speak, so it's pretty clear to me that there's no agenda or anything other than a genuine desire to own a high quality firearm. Compared to most of the folks that I had to "fire" as customers, you're virtually an angel!

And for DGW's part, I understand their reluctance to risk sending another gun out to you that is certainly not going to meet your expectations, even if you plan on sending it to a third party for a tune-up. I suspect that even if you weren't satisfied with the results from Jay Strite, DGW probably wouldn't hear from you, but Dixie hasn't had the good fortune of our detailed conversations here at TFL, so I imagine that they feel a little uncomfortable about the plan. Unfortunately, that means "firing" you, even if it is a reasonably amicable parting.

Hopefully, the combination of Taylor's and Strite will provide you with a first-rate Remington. After looking at the work that Jay Strite does (at the Raven's Roost Custom web page), I can't help but think that you're going to be happy.

Be sure to let us know how this works out - I have really enjoyed reading this thread and especially appreciate the outstanding photography!
 
Cajun,

Some would say that you get what you pay for. Probably true in many instances. It might be asking a bit much when expecting perfection when the price of most these replicas is relatively cheap. However, I share your frustration. I've seen some of the most bonehead, dumbs***, numbskull things done with a few of these replicas. When something is so obvious and blatant it seems that some of the workers at Pietta or Uberti will just rig a solution rather than hold it back and fix it the proper way.
 
LOL !

FIRED! :eek: ROFL !

Ahhhh it's true, I mean it's really all about money and my gripin' ain't makin' 'em no mo muuuuney. :-)

Hardcase, that's good insight on what has actually happened regardless of all the details. I'm so spoiled on web content and SEO, etc..., (as I was in the wireless communications business as a web programmer), that this thread might have decided the issue for them. I mean there are a BUNCH of experts out here so maybe they just didn't want to play at this table anymore.

I'm really looking forward to the Taylor-Strite combo. I may have $600 in the whole thing with all the shipping and such, but I'll have ... not a perfect ... but a fine Uberti 1858 New Army Remington revolver target model in stainless steel . And most importantly I will have learned a terrific amount about the revolver and black powder. I will be looking for a modern, inline BP rifle next and the CVA Accura is looking pretty good on sale at Cabela's, although I may get a flintlock. And that's part of the fun of all of this is making that final decision on what you really, really want.

And you are right, I really, really want a very nice Remmie in stainless.

ClemBert:

I'm in stitches still as I chuckle over our virtual "Pietta and Uberti soap opera"! We'll call it "As the Cylinder Turns".

The "Pietta Genius" ROFL, LMAO !
 
Like Yogi Berra once said, "It ain't over 'til it's over!"
I hoping that with Taylor's Guns, CajunPowder will be "In like Flint!" :D

It reminds me of a problem that I once had with a brand new Buck knife and all of the defective "free" replacements that they sent me. After a number of attempts to receive a non-defective knife, I ended up receiving a full refund check, a pocket knife engraved with my intitials and a letter of apology from Chuck Buck who told me that I would be better off buying another replacement knife in person at retail. I did too and couldn't be happier. But that was after repeated mailings with their service dept. without being satisfied. :rolleyes:
 
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Interesting reading. Man, I feel for you. I used to do living history reenacting and have had quite a few Pedersoli and Miroku repros. *sigh*

If I were you - but of course I'm not - I'd get a Ruger Old Army. I've got two, and they are somewhere between a good old Mack truck and a Swiss watch. Strong as heck and run like clocks.

Good luck - revolvers really are a good way to burn black powder, so I hope you have a happy ending! :D
 
Well, that was fun!

I think I'll start looking at a forged frame Uberti in blue
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So, I gather then that the stainless Uberti's are not forged? I came upon this thread after googling "uberti 1858 stainless target", since I was considering purchasing one.
I have noticed that a fine handgun begins to look all nasty under a 10X loupe, but have to say, my Pietta looks much better under the top strap than that Uberti, and there is absolutely no justification for that big pit in the back of the recoil shield.
 
Waiting on Taylor's backorder list.

arcticap: Yer lucky ya didn't get FIRED! :D I'm still on the backorder list at Taylors ... zzzzz ... looks like it will be the end of this month. Midway is on backorder for this model as well ...

JNewell: Thanks for reading and looking through the thread. I'd like an ROA, of that I won't lie, but I've really got my heart set on the 1858 New Army. I really like that the cylinder can be dropped out quickly and another pre-loaded cylinder goes in quickly. If one orders a drop-in conversion cylinder, that makes re-loading much, much faster. Plus I really like the history behind the revolver.

HisSoldier:

Of what I understand the Stainless Uberti 1858 New Army Models, (both the target and the fixed sight models), are not forged, they are cast. I did design the thread so that people looking for information on these models would find the thread returning very highly in google, thanks for the feedback on SERP position.

The Firing Line has been very well moderated over the years and it is well designed as well, thus the high google rankings on many subjects discussed on The Firing Line.

I'm convinced at this point that quality is on a piece by piece basis. Some years, some months, some lots, some weeks of production might be better than others. And I'm also thinking that the majority of the pieces that get bad press are many fewer than those that are really nice and don't get mentioned.

People are by and large fairly private about their guns in general. But sell a man a gun that is low quality or does not meet their expectations and they will climb a mountain and shout about it as loud as they can.

What irks me is that the photographs on the vendor's websites show absolutely BEAUTIFUL and PERFECT pieces and the verbage the marketing departments create is so glowing and WONDERFUL. So they build expectations very, very high especially for people who have no experience in this area.
 
What irks me is that the photographs on the vendor's websites show absolutely BEAUTIFUL and PERFECT pieces and the verbage the marketing departments create is so glowing and WONDERFUL. So they build expectations very, very high especially for people who have no experience in this area.
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???

This 'irks' you?

Let's see. Suppose you were hired by a company to present their new line of widgets to the public for sale. And let's say the widgets were nicely polished. You'd intentionally select specimens for photographs that had minor flaws, and in describing the features of the widgets you'd suggest that maybe they weren't perfect, just so the public's expectations wouldn't be set too high. Is that correct?

Do you honestly believe that product advertising presents (or should present) only the average condition and performance of a product?

Advertising puts a product's best foot forward. I thought everyone knew that. Being 'irked' by that is honestly a bit of a waste of energy.
 
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