Uberti 1858 quest for positive lock.
- Thread starter CajunPowder
- Start date
CajunPowder
Moderator
The longest post I will ever make 
I want to be thorough as I've been welcomed warmly by all of your participation, knowledge, expertise and wisdom.
I will be taking some pictures of this 3rd revolver that I've ordered this weekend and will be seeking some more feedback on it from range buddies, etc ...
Doc Hoy:
If that was the best one out of more than 40, then we are left thinking of what quality might the other units be from that lot? Out of the box, we might have to 'throw' those revolvers at the barn door. And if any of the pieces fell off over the course of it's 25 yard flight I'd never find them. The upside is that powder and boolits would be less of an expense.
The area under the topstrap is a real mess, it's worse than any of you might want to imagine, it almost has the texture of rough cement. The inner surfaces of the frame on the first revolver I ordered from "C's", (the Pietta), had considerable filing marks, and then the same was observed on the first Uberti I ordered from "T's". I could have worked all that out with a dremel and if I'm going to be serious about any of this I think its time to acquire a dremel and some basic accessories.
As to the boar hunting, that's a challenging way to get bacon for breakfast, (but a time saver), ... angling for the best strike that will put the animal down, (as well as dress it at the same time), all on the run while avoiding the other members of the sounder is quite efficient. Perhaps that's why the natives tend to be so low in body fat. They might have really good lemondade over there and plenty of it.
madcratebuilder:
After a look at this 2nd Uberti, (and the first experience which was a Pietta), I can see the design of the loading lever and the history of it's design do lend themselves to some wiggle, especially if they are going to be used often. Thanks for putting it in a nutshell, I will consider them more as kits from now on, that seems to be the basic nature of the beast. On this third revolver I've ordered, the rear sight assembly seems to be in good shape and wether I keep this one or not I will watch this issue carefully and obtain a tiny screwdriver to work with it. After sighting the keeper in, I will blue loctite them per your and other's consistent advice on this issue.
mykeal:
The bolt issue isn't tragically serious and it does index well enough, but it certainly does not lock up tight and I expect after a month and a few hundred rounds I will regret not getting it setup tight to start. It certainly is peening the edges of all the bolt notches, (as it is falling exactly on the edges of all the notches).
My expectations are too high and I've considered pursuing the purchase of a Pedersoli 1858 pattern but then I've got the issue of a conversion cylinder and what might be a wretched expense to make that happen on the Pedersoli, and my expectations might again be set too high even for a Pedersoli when shelling out upwards of $900 for a new Pedersoli. I'm settling down into that "kit mentality" and I think all in all my funds might be better spent on some basic tools and some woodshed here in these forums and CAScity.
That's good feedback on cleaning, I'd pictured it as more of a chore than it probably is.
horseman308:
Thanks for continuing to confirm the issues with the loading lever. Interestingly enough, the third revolver I've obtained from "D's" has a loading lever that is tighter at the hinge with the ramming rod than any piece I've ever heard of, it's almost sticky and creaky in it's operation as if it might be "too tight". I'm sure it would loosen up with some use; and there's one issue to put it into the keeper category as I'm moving more and more into the "Kit" mentality and the "finish it yourself" attitude.
The biggest issue now is the peening on the edges of the cylinder bolt notches and the lack of tight lock up.
I have considered a road trip to Texas Jack's in Fredericksburg, Texas as they are the "Cimarron" vendor of high regard, (and some mystique), for Uberti. I expect I might find a very nice unit there for inspection. I should call them ... They are a little over 7 hours drive by car from me so it's quite a trip but could be done - there and back in a day. Such is my passion for a nice 1858 and to start all of this off the right way. They are open on both Saturday and Sunday. It would be a fine trip in this nice spring weather and a good excuse to clean out the Northstar, (whistles Dixie).
If they were still making ROA's new, I would have snatched one up in an instant, and that purchase might be for later. What attracts me most to the Uberti Remington 1858 is the installation base, it's one of the most popular of the BP revolvers and parts are readily available for it. The knowledge base is very widespread as well. I'm also attracted to it's historical look and feel. I shot a cylinder full of smoke out of one of these as a young teen with my dad and his buddy, a real original in fine condition, I won't forget that day.
kwhi43@kc.rr.com:
Thank you for that exceptional picture! What length is that barrel I wonder?
I'm noticing that prices on both the Uberti and the Pietta's have gone up considerably in the last two years. I think I'm seeing at least a 25% - 40% increase in prices since 2007. I certainly would be willing to put an additional $300 over the long course to have a super duper example of a '58.
Hardcase:
Yes, it sounds like you were lucky. LOL! Took it apart and put it back together again. I'm looking forward to becoming that knowledgeable about these Remmies. Gee, I guess I'll need another now, LOL! I am modifying my expectations a great deal. Low standards can be a good thing! I get a lot more dates that way and whose to say it's not a wise idea, yeah? I have just begun ... to buy.
Hawg Haggen:
Buy the ROA from kwhi43@kc.rr.com, box it up, and send it my way, I'm getting real good at paying postage anyway! You'll have plenty of change left over from that $20 GOLD piece.
zippy13:
Thank you for the welcome. I was unable to inspect the barrel as I had vomited on it. Perhaps Pietta was working on a design for the kind of gun that shoots around a corner! The saftey notch thing really bothers me, it's like ... HERE! hold on to this lit stick o' dyneemite! Don't move now! ...
When I pulled the first Pietta out of the box and got down to inspecting it, I actually got mad for a little while, I said to myself ... what did I ever do to those Italian guys! ? !
Hawg:
I think I've entered this thing in a very lucky way. The only BP revolver that I like at all is the Remmie. I really, really like the authenticity of it, and I'm going to keep telling myself that because I can't afford this hobby if I branch out.
================
Thank you all for your feedback and support as I dive into this ... hobby. And with the way our fine President is handling the economy and the cheerleader is guarding the Texas border, the revolver actually qualifies as an excellent surival tool and provides some peace of mind. I've got plenty of layers of chicken and swine dirt available down the road that have been percolating for more than 50 years.
After more 'think and look' I'm seeing that the hole tapped for the screw that fixes the rear sight assembly onto the topstrap passes all the way through the topstrap, (which I don't think was necessary but perhaps a matter of expedience). The end of the screw does not protrude out of the hole and the end of the screw was not shaved or cut off, (the screw is not long enough to warrant tapping the hole completely through the topstrap).
This hole in the underside of the topstrap worries me over the longer term as it may gather powder residue and moisture and over time the threads on the end of the screw will begin to degrade and rust as well as wick moisture up further into the hole ... so I think that hole needs to be sealed. I will watch for this issue on the exchange and on future target models.
I am going to return this one for an exchange as the edges of the cylinder bolt notches are peened from simply cocking the hammer, there's way too much daylight under the front sight assembly and it does not lock up tight, and other issues as discussed.
I did not get the tight lockup on the cylinder I wanted even though I was willing to let some cosmetic issues go. What I got was some very real cosmetic and finishing issues on what might be the cream of the crop model, (the stainless steel target model), of the cream of the crop replica maker, (Uberti).
So no lock up and no increased mechanical quality in trade-offs for the cosmetic issues.
I'm paying $375.00 for this revolver, it's reduced in price from a regular price of $395.00. I'm willing to pay another shipping charge for them to have another try at providing me with a cylinder that locks up tight.
Just food for thought:
As there is no 'V' machined into the topstrap for a rear sight channel ... which was an interesting piece of information to come by through all of this. In some state of wishful thinking, (that the piece has no 'V' groove cut into the topstrap), might make the topstrap on these models a bit stronger and might make the topstrap on these models a better candidate to mount a scope upon.
In summation of this experience and in thanks for the good feedback I've recieved from veteran members of this forum:
1. Any of these Italian reproductions will require some degree of final finishing, tuning and setup out of the box; that all of this is more of a 'kit' than a fine, finished product by any means, (out of the box), is the best attitude to take. Pure luck is the only element getting you anywhere near perfection 'out of the box'.
2. Replicas "on sale" are "on sale" for a reason.
3. If a vendor has over 40 units of a particular model in stock and some of those are over 2 years old, there's a reason for that overstock.
4. If a vendor is willing to handpick, or cherrypick for you, that could be an issue that is not necessarily in your favor.
5. If you get an obvious lemon from a vendor, move on. When you get an almost acceptable unit, exchange and hope for better and stick with that vendor to work things out.
6. By and large Uberti gives you a better product to work with towards a really nice shooter but Pietta might not be far behind.
7. Keep your expectations low, your tools sharp and your powder dry.
8. People are nice here. (and well armed).
I want to be thorough as I've been welcomed warmly by all of your participation, knowledge, expertise and wisdom.
I will be taking some pictures of this 3rd revolver that I've ordered this weekend and will be seeking some more feedback on it from range buddies, etc ...
Doc Hoy:
If that was the best one out of more than 40, then we are left thinking of what quality might the other units be from that lot? Out of the box, we might have to 'throw' those revolvers at the barn door. And if any of the pieces fell off over the course of it's 25 yard flight I'd never find them. The upside is that powder and boolits would be less of an expense.
The area under the topstrap is a real mess, it's worse than any of you might want to imagine, it almost has the texture of rough cement. The inner surfaces of the frame on the first revolver I ordered from "C's", (the Pietta), had considerable filing marks, and then the same was observed on the first Uberti I ordered from "T's". I could have worked all that out with a dremel and if I'm going to be serious about any of this I think its time to acquire a dremel and some basic accessories.
As to the boar hunting, that's a challenging way to get bacon for breakfast, (but a time saver), ... angling for the best strike that will put the animal down, (as well as dress it at the same time), all on the run while avoiding the other members of the sounder is quite efficient. Perhaps that's why the natives tend to be so low in body fat. They might have really good lemondade over there and plenty of it.
madcratebuilder:
After a look at this 2nd Uberti, (and the first experience which was a Pietta), I can see the design of the loading lever and the history of it's design do lend themselves to some wiggle, especially if they are going to be used often. Thanks for putting it in a nutshell, I will consider them more as kits from now on, that seems to be the basic nature of the beast. On this third revolver I've ordered, the rear sight assembly seems to be in good shape and wether I keep this one or not I will watch this issue carefully and obtain a tiny screwdriver to work with it. After sighting the keeper in, I will blue loctite them per your and other's consistent advice on this issue.
mykeal:
The bolt issue isn't tragically serious and it does index well enough, but it certainly does not lock up tight and I expect after a month and a few hundred rounds I will regret not getting it setup tight to start. It certainly is peening the edges of all the bolt notches, (as it is falling exactly on the edges of all the notches).
My expectations are too high and I've considered pursuing the purchase of a Pedersoli 1858 pattern but then I've got the issue of a conversion cylinder and what might be a wretched expense to make that happen on the Pedersoli, and my expectations might again be set too high even for a Pedersoli when shelling out upwards of $900 for a new Pedersoli. I'm settling down into that "kit mentality" and I think all in all my funds might be better spent on some basic tools and some woodshed here in these forums and CAScity.
That's good feedback on cleaning, I'd pictured it as more of a chore than it probably is.
horseman308:
Thanks for continuing to confirm the issues with the loading lever. Interestingly enough, the third revolver I've obtained from "D's" has a loading lever that is tighter at the hinge with the ramming rod than any piece I've ever heard of, it's almost sticky and creaky in it's operation as if it might be "too tight". I'm sure it would loosen up with some use; and there's one issue to put it into the keeper category as I'm moving more and more into the "Kit" mentality and the "finish it yourself" attitude.
The biggest issue now is the peening on the edges of the cylinder bolt notches and the lack of tight lock up.
I have considered a road trip to Texas Jack's in Fredericksburg, Texas as they are the "Cimarron" vendor of high regard, (and some mystique), for Uberti. I expect I might find a very nice unit there for inspection. I should call them ... They are a little over 7 hours drive by car from me so it's quite a trip but could be done - there and back in a day. Such is my passion for a nice 1858 and to start all of this off the right way. They are open on both Saturday and Sunday. It would be a fine trip in this nice spring weather and a good excuse to clean out the Northstar, (whistles Dixie).
If they were still making ROA's new, I would have snatched one up in an instant, and that purchase might be for later. What attracts me most to the Uberti Remington 1858 is the installation base, it's one of the most popular of the BP revolvers and parts are readily available for it. The knowledge base is very widespread as well. I'm also attracted to it's historical look and feel. I shot a cylinder full of smoke out of one of these as a young teen with my dad and his buddy, a real original in fine condition, I won't forget that day.
kwhi43@kc.rr.com:
Thank you for that exceptional picture! What length is that barrel I wonder?
I'm noticing that prices on both the Uberti and the Pietta's have gone up considerably in the last two years. I think I'm seeing at least a 25% - 40% increase in prices since 2007. I certainly would be willing to put an additional $300 over the long course to have a super duper example of a '58.
Hardcase:
Yes, it sounds like you were lucky. LOL! Took it apart and put it back together again. I'm looking forward to becoming that knowledgeable about these Remmies. Gee, I guess I'll need another now, LOL! I am modifying my expectations a great deal. Low standards can be a good thing! I get a lot more dates that way and whose to say it's not a wise idea, yeah? I have just begun ... to buy.
Hawg Haggen:
Buy the ROA from kwhi43@kc.rr.com, box it up, and send it my way, I'm getting real good at paying postage anyway! You'll have plenty of change left over from that $20 GOLD piece.
zippy13:
Thank you for the welcome. I was unable to inspect the barrel as I had vomited on it.
Perhaps Pietta was working on a design for the kind of gun that shoots around a corner! The saftey notch thing really bothers me, it's like ... HERE! hold on to this lit stick o' dyneemite! Don't move now! ...When I pulled the first Pietta out of the box and got down to inspecting it, I actually got mad for a little while, I said to myself ... what did I ever do to those Italian guys! ? !
Hawg:
I think I've entered this thing in a very lucky way. The only BP revolver that I like at all is the Remmie. I really, really like the authenticity of it, and I'm going to keep telling myself that because I can't afford this hobby if I branch out.
================
Thank you all for your feedback and support as I dive into this ... hobby. And with the way our fine President is handling the economy and the cheerleader is guarding the Texas border, the revolver actually qualifies as an excellent surival tool and provides some peace of mind. I've got plenty of layers of chicken and swine dirt available down the road that have been percolating for more than 50 years.
After more 'think and look' I'm seeing that the hole tapped for the screw that fixes the rear sight assembly onto the topstrap passes all the way through the topstrap, (which I don't think was necessary but perhaps a matter of expedience). The end of the screw does not protrude out of the hole and the end of the screw was not shaved or cut off, (the screw is not long enough to warrant tapping the hole completely through the topstrap).
This hole in the underside of the topstrap worries me over the longer term as it may gather powder residue and moisture and over time the threads on the end of the screw will begin to degrade and rust as well as wick moisture up further into the hole ... so I think that hole needs to be sealed. I will watch for this issue on the exchange and on future target models.
I am going to return this one for an exchange as the edges of the cylinder bolt notches are peened from simply cocking the hammer, there's way too much daylight under the front sight assembly and it does not lock up tight, and other issues as discussed.
I did not get the tight lockup on the cylinder I wanted even though I was willing to let some cosmetic issues go. What I got was some very real cosmetic and finishing issues on what might be the cream of the crop model, (the stainless steel target model), of the cream of the crop replica maker, (Uberti).
So no lock up and no increased mechanical quality in trade-offs for the cosmetic issues.
I'm paying $375.00 for this revolver, it's reduced in price from a regular price of $395.00. I'm willing to pay another shipping charge for them to have another try at providing me with a cylinder that locks up tight.
Just food for thought:
As there is no 'V' machined into the topstrap for a rear sight channel ... which was an interesting piece of information to come by through all of this. In some state of wishful thinking, (that the piece has no 'V' groove cut into the topstrap), might make the topstrap on these models a bit stronger and might make the topstrap on these models a better candidate to mount a scope upon.
In summation of this experience and in thanks for the good feedback I've recieved from veteran members of this forum:
1. Any of these Italian reproductions will require some degree of final finishing, tuning and setup out of the box; that all of this is more of a 'kit' than a fine, finished product by any means, (out of the box), is the best attitude to take. Pure luck is the only element getting you anywhere near perfection 'out of the box'.
2. Replicas "on sale" are "on sale" for a reason.
3. If a vendor has over 40 units of a particular model in stock and some of those are over 2 years old, there's a reason for that overstock.
4. If a vendor is willing to handpick, or cherrypick for you, that could be an issue that is not necessarily in your favor.
5. If you get an obvious lemon from a vendor, move on. When you get an almost acceptable unit, exchange and hope for better and stick with that vendor to work things out.
6. By and large Uberti gives you a better product to work with towards a really nice shooter but Pietta might not be far behind.
7. Keep your expectations low, your tools sharp and your powder dry.
8. People are nice here. (and well armed).
CP,
Good post.
Now that I think of it, I don't recall any of my Guamanian chronies ever reporting that they had killed a pig. Maybe they SAID they were going hunting just as an excuse to drink the lemonade.
I would be inclined to agree with each of your eight points....especially the last one. With the possible exception of yours truly, there are some smart folks here.
Good post.
Now that I think of it, I don't recall any of my Guamanian chronies ever reporting that they had killed a pig. Maybe they SAID they were going hunting just as an excuse to drink the lemonade.
I would be inclined to agree with each of your eight points....especially the last one. With the possible exception of yours truly, there are some smart folks here.
The barrel length is 6 inches. He asked me what I wanted and that's what I
said . He could have made it any length. I am a old guy 67, and only target
shoot. The shorter barrel is better for me. After you shoot 10 matches a day
I need something light. Did manage to win 1st place at the Nationals last year
in the 50 yd. match. Shot a 87 with it. Thats on a standard NRA pistol target.
Good luck to you.
said . He could have made it any length. I am a old guy 67, and only target
shoot. The shorter barrel is better for me. After you shoot 10 matches a day
I need something light. Did manage to win 1st place at the Nationals last year
in the 50 yd. match. Shot a 87 with it. Thats on a standard NRA pistol target.
Good luck to you.
CajunPowder
Moderator
21 more years to practice !
Doc:
Thanks for reading the post, I hope you've enjoyed our time in the thread. Keep an eye peeled for "Guam Springs Lemonade" coming soon to a store near you, and "Blade Harvest - Cochon De Lait", the "Smaller Swine" that bakes up just in time.
Hawg:
Thank you very much for your participation in my first thread and dealin' with mah ramblin'.
kwhi43@kc.rr.com:
It's a pleasure to make the acquaintance of a 50 yd. champion. You've got some exceptional posts on thefiringline.com for sure. I saw "My Little .36 Target", (the blued steel model), that looks like a 6" barrel as well. I'm thinking 6 1/2" to 7" for myself and I'm very interested in having a target barrel with a match crown, etc..., (later).
I see your blued steel ROA target model for $400 as well.
I'm beginning to understand that perhaps the best source for Black Powder revolvers are the forums rather than the stores! I know you wouldn't have an ROA in your possession that was in anything less than great condition. I wish I could buy it but I'm completely focused on these Remmies to get me and my buddies started.
I really enjoy the meticulous perfectionism involved in target shooting. I have some exceptional memories from Lookout Mountain Camp for boys in Mentone, Alabama. I got my sharpshooter bars there at 8 and 9 years old with some very old .22's. By the end of the first summer I knew which one shot best and attempted to claim it when I returned the following summer, (it was no secret by that time). I had truly exceptional eyesight at that age but no strong concepts of breath and rythm, etc... Even though, the counselors at camp always gave me a rough time when I went to the range because I could out shoot them all.
I hope that I can get my group of interested range buddies off the ground and into competition mode with a few braces of Uberti stainless steel Remington New Army target models and I'm hoping "D" will come through for me. They say they have upwards of 40 in stock.
They are on sale now for $375 down from $395.
I, (we), intend to send all that we buy directly from the box to a gunsmith for the basics and will probably finish the grind and file marks out ourselves before sending them to the gunsmith. We're thinking of sending them to Jay Strite as he is within driving distance. Any conversion cylinder fitting I have done we will have Jay do as well with the civil war konverter.
What is your favorite converter cylinder? Have you seen this, (Howell's), R&D product that is available for the Remmie that holds only five rounds and is stainless steel? I'm looking for some confirmation and feedback on this:
The strongest .45 caliber 5 shot conversion on the market today. It has straight bore throw chambers for the best accuracy.
I called River Junction and they confirmed that it is in stock and works for the Remmie.
Any suggestions for gunsmith's that are noted for their experience and skills working on the '58 Remmies will be appreciated.
Again, I'll try for some pictures, (Sunday night), of the issues I've been discussing.
Doc:
Thanks for reading the post, I hope you've enjoyed our time in the thread. Keep an eye peeled for "Guam Springs Lemonade" coming soon to a store near you, and "Blade Harvest - Cochon De Lait", the "Smaller Swine" that bakes up just in time.
Hawg:
Thank you very much for your participation in my first thread and dealin' with mah ramblin'.
kwhi43@kc.rr.com:
It's a pleasure to make the acquaintance of a 50 yd. champion. You've got some exceptional posts on thefiringline.com for sure. I saw "My Little .36 Target", (the blued steel model), that looks like a 6" barrel as well. I'm thinking 6 1/2" to 7" for myself and I'm very interested in having a target barrel with a match crown, etc..., (later).
I see your blued steel ROA target model for $400 as well.
I'm beginning to understand that perhaps the best source for Black Powder revolvers are the forums rather than the stores! I know you wouldn't have an ROA in your possession that was in anything less than great condition. I wish I could buy it but I'm completely focused on these Remmies to get me and my buddies started.
I really enjoy the meticulous perfectionism involved in target shooting. I have some exceptional memories from Lookout Mountain Camp for boys in Mentone, Alabama. I got my sharpshooter bars there at 8 and 9 years old with some very old .22's. By the end of the first summer I knew which one shot best and attempted to claim it when I returned the following summer, (it was no secret by that time). I had truly exceptional eyesight at that age but no strong concepts of breath and rythm, etc... Even though, the counselors at camp always gave me a rough time when I went to the range because I could out shoot them all.
I hope that I can get my group of interested range buddies off the ground and into competition mode with a few braces of Uberti stainless steel Remington New Army target models and I'm hoping "D" will come through for me. They say they have upwards of 40 in stock.
They are on sale now for $375 down from $395.
I, (we), intend to send all that we buy directly from the box to a gunsmith for the basics and will probably finish the grind and file marks out ourselves before sending them to the gunsmith. We're thinking of sending them to Jay Strite as he is within driving distance. Any conversion cylinder fitting I have done we will have Jay do as well with the civil war konverter.
What is your favorite converter cylinder? Have you seen this, (Howell's), R&D product that is available for the Remmie that holds only five rounds and is stainless steel? I'm looking for some confirmation and feedback on this:
The strongest .45 caliber 5 shot conversion on the market today. It has straight bore throw chambers for the best accuracy.
I called River Junction and they confirmed that it is in stock and works for the Remmie.
Any suggestions for gunsmith's that are noted for their experience and skills working on the '58 Remmies will be appreciated.
Again, I'll try for some pictures, (Sunday night), of the issues I've been discussing.
andrewstorm
Moderator
Get you a ruger old army
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ NO PROBLEMS.......................................................................................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................ NO PROBLEMS.......................................................................................................................................................................................
CajunPowder
Moderator
Peened Cylinder Notch Edges
FIGURE 01:
The edges of the cylinder notches are peened and continue to peen on this brand new, out of the box, Uberti replica of an 1858 Remington New Army model 44 caliber revolver in stainless steel; this is the target model.
This series of macro images was taken by myself and processed in photoshop. No filters were applied to these images, no auto leveling, no sharpening, (no filters were applied). The images were cropped and sized and then saved at the maximum quality as jpeg.
When I recieved this revolver the peening of the cylinder notch edges was barely noticeable and then only on a few cylinders. After cocking the revolver perhaps as many as 60 times, the damage is nearly done.
Of note, (in the four click series we listen for that tells our ears that a Remington New Army model revolver may exhibit good timing), the third and fourth clicks are almost indistinguishable unless you labor to pull the hammer back as slowly as possible, (the revolver has a fairly smooth action). The third and fourth clicks are extremely close together.
Of note, the trigger has an exceptionally light pull and a break like the finest crystal champagne glass. It is nearly a hair-trigger.
Next I will post macro images of the bolt taken so as to show the slant of the bolt face, (slant of the bolt surface), as best as possible.
FIGURE 01:
The edges of the cylinder notches are peened and continue to peen on this brand new, out of the box, Uberti replica of an 1858 Remington New Army model 44 caliber revolver in stainless steel; this is the target model.
This series of macro images was taken by myself and processed in photoshop. No filters were applied to these images, no auto leveling, no sharpening, (no filters were applied). The images were cropped and sized and then saved at the maximum quality as jpeg.
When I recieved this revolver the peening of the cylinder notch edges was barely noticeable and then only on a few cylinders. After cocking the revolver perhaps as many as 60 times, the damage is nearly done.
Of note, (in the four click series we listen for that tells our ears that a Remington New Army model revolver may exhibit good timing), the third and fourth clicks are almost indistinguishable unless you labor to pull the hammer back as slowly as possible, (the revolver has a fairly smooth action). The third and fourth clicks are extremely close together.
Of note, the trigger has an exceptionally light pull and a break like the finest crystal champagne glass. It is nearly a hair-trigger.
Next I will post macro images of the bolt taken so as to show the slant of the bolt face, (slant of the bolt surface), as best as possible.
CajunPowder
Moderator
Slanted bolt face. Uberti Remington 1858 New Army Stainless Steel Target Model
FIGURE 02:
These two images show how the bolt face, (or bolt surface), is slanted, (per its design), as well as offset to the side of the centerline of the frame, (laterally offset from the basepin). One of the images is taken from the left side of the frame, (the other from the right side of the frame), looking from the front of the revolver to the back of this Uberti Remington New Army Model, (stainless steel target model), new and fresh out of the box.
In the next post, the next set of images will show a close up of the bolt face, (or bolt surface). We will be able to examine the markings on the bolt face made by the contact with the cylinder and the cylinder notch surfaces, (edges and interiors).
Edit Made : 04-08-2010
I do not think the bolt face is slanted enough, but filing it anymore would probably shorten it too much.
FIGURE 02:
These two images show how the bolt face, (or bolt surface), is slanted, (per its design), as well as offset to the side of the centerline of the frame, (laterally offset from the basepin). One of the images is taken from the left side of the frame, (the other from the right side of the frame), looking from the front of the revolver to the back of this Uberti Remington New Army Model, (stainless steel target model), new and fresh out of the box.
In the next post, the next set of images will show a close up of the bolt face, (or bolt surface). We will be able to examine the markings on the bolt face made by the contact with the cylinder and the cylinder notch surfaces, (edges and interiors).
Edit Made : 04-08-2010
I do not think the bolt face is slanted enough, but filing it anymore would probably shorten it too much.
Last edited:
CajunPowder
Moderator
Bolt face, bolt surface - wear and markings
FIGURE 03:
By comparing the markings on the bolt face, (this FIGURE 03), to the markings on the edges of the cylinder notches and the markings on the interior surfaces of the cylinder notches, (FIGURE 01), we can offer some conjecture as to how the bolt face, (or surface), is engaging the surfaces of the cylinder and cylinder notches and the effectiveness of that action, (timing).
If there are any additional photos that might be taken to make any of this more clear for the purposes of discussion, please note that and I will attempt to take those photos and post them.
I look forward to the discussion on this issue as at this point I consider myself an eager gunsmith student for the New Army Model Remington revolver. Rather than partaking of Guamian lemonade with Doc I would prefer to make some bank vaults when the need arises.
More pictures coming after some discussion ...
FIGURE 03:
By comparing the markings on the bolt face, (this FIGURE 03), to the markings on the edges of the cylinder notches and the markings on the interior surfaces of the cylinder notches, (FIGURE 01), we can offer some conjecture as to how the bolt face, (or surface), is engaging the surfaces of the cylinder and cylinder notches and the effectiveness of that action, (timing).
If there are any additional photos that might be taken to make any of this more clear for the purposes of discussion, please note that and I will attempt to take those photos and post them.
I look forward to the discussion on this issue as at this point I consider myself an eager gunsmith student for the New Army Model Remington revolver. Rather than partaking of Guamian lemonade with Doc I would prefer to make some bank vaults when the need arises.
More pictures coming after some discussion ...
CajunPowder
CP,
Here are two links to the Pettifogger articles on smoothing up the actions on Colt style revolvers. (I know we are talking about a Remington clone but you will see that some of the discussion is pertinent.)
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf
The first article identifies the problems addressing specifically some of the problems you have mentioned. The second article speaks to the correction of the problems.
I think that much of this discussion should be informed by those articles. I think what you are seeing on the cylinder of the Uberti is the the pistol "shooting in". The shape of the metal surfaces in the area of the bolt and the notches develop over time as the action is cycled. Problem is, the bolt is slightly harder than the cylidere so most of the shaping happens to the cylinder creating the unsightly peening on the notches. Eventually if left uncorrected the pistols shoots itself loose.
I have used Pettifogger's technique to correct this problem and the bolt drag ring on the cylinder. I believe I have described the problem accurately in the previous paragraph but I would solicit others to fill in the blanks.
I would be willing to bet that fifty percent of the revolvers sold (without regard to who manufactures them as long as we are talking about pistols that cost less than $400.00 new) need to have this stuff done to them. Go to a gun show and look at the used revolvers. Or check the used pistols on Gunbroker and you will see that a high number have the beginning of a bolt drag ring.
I would add that the surfaces of the frame that appear to be unfinished are fairly common. You have noted this in the pistols you have purchased. Literally every (if I remember your comments correctly) one has had the same rough appearance. I have two Remingtons, both made by ASM. One is Brass, the other is blued steel. Neither one has a nice finish on the inner surfaces of the frame. Over my shooting life I can remember no 1858 which was finished the way a comtemporary cartridge revolver would be done. But at one third to one half the price, I just assume that this is one of the corners that was routinely cut.
We have an example of a black powder revolver that is made more or less to cartridge revolver standards in the Ruger old Army. When sold new they brought about the same price as the Single Six with equivalent features. (Again relying upon memory here.) At that time as now, that is far above the price of a Spanish or Italian replica. I lived in Italy for about a year in the late seventies. An Italian replica could be purchased for about 50 bucks. My first ROA (SS/7.5/adj sights.) was 85.00 in the Nato Sports Store. There was a cartridge revolver (Can't remember which) sitting right next to it in the display case for very much the same price. I remember this distinctly because I was trying to figure out how to get the pistols from Naples to just south of Rome without breaking any laws. (Always try to avoid Italian jails and Italian hospitals)
CP,
Here are two links to the Pettifogger articles on smoothing up the actions on Colt style revolvers. (I know we are talking about a Remington clone but you will see that some of the discussion is pertinent.)
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf
http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf
The first article identifies the problems addressing specifically some of the problems you have mentioned. The second article speaks to the correction of the problems.
I think that much of this discussion should be informed by those articles. I think what you are seeing on the cylinder of the Uberti is the the pistol "shooting in". The shape of the metal surfaces in the area of the bolt and the notches develop over time as the action is cycled. Problem is, the bolt is slightly harder than the cylidere so most of the shaping happens to the cylinder creating the unsightly peening on the notches. Eventually if left uncorrected the pistols shoots itself loose.
I have used Pettifogger's technique to correct this problem and the bolt drag ring on the cylinder. I believe I have described the problem accurately in the previous paragraph but I would solicit others to fill in the blanks.
I would be willing to bet that fifty percent of the revolvers sold (without regard to who manufactures them as long as we are talking about pistols that cost less than $400.00 new) need to have this stuff done to them. Go to a gun show and look at the used revolvers. Or check the used pistols on Gunbroker and you will see that a high number have the beginning of a bolt drag ring.
I would add that the surfaces of the frame that appear to be unfinished are fairly common. You have noted this in the pistols you have purchased. Literally every (if I remember your comments correctly) one has had the same rough appearance. I have two Remingtons, both made by ASM. One is Brass, the other is blued steel. Neither one has a nice finish on the inner surfaces of the frame. Over my shooting life I can remember no 1858 which was finished the way a comtemporary cartridge revolver would be done. But at one third to one half the price, I just assume that this is one of the corners that was routinely cut.
We have an example of a black powder revolver that is made more or less to cartridge revolver standards in the Ruger old Army. When sold new they brought about the same price as the Single Six with equivalent features. (Again relying upon memory here.) At that time as now, that is far above the price of a Spanish or Italian replica. I lived in Italy for about a year in the late seventies. An Italian replica could be purchased for about 50 bucks. My first ROA (SS/7.5/adj sights.) was 85.00 in the Nato Sports Store. There was a cartridge revolver (Can't remember which) sitting right next to it in the display case for very much the same price. I remember this distinctly because I was trying to figure out how to get the pistols from Naples to just south of Rome without breaking any laws. (Always try to avoid Italian jails and Italian hospitals)
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Hawg
This may be the first time I disagree with you.
I think if the ring is continuous all the way around the cylinder it is because of contact with the bolt at all 360 degrees of the cylinder rotation. To me that almost has to mean that the bolt is dragging the cylinder all the way around the cylinder. Otherwise the ring would not be continuous.
I could easily be wrong.
This may be the first time I disagree with you.
I think if the ring is continuous all the way around the cylinder it is because of contact with the bolt at all 360 degrees of the cylinder rotation. To me that almost has to mean that the bolt is dragging the cylinder all the way around the cylinder. Otherwise the ring would not be continuous.
I could easily be wrong.
The pictures are great and illustrate what is often said about how there's not enough of a quality difference between the Uberti and Pietta [or Euroarms] Remingtons to be able to draw conclusions about which brand is better made or more desirable to purchase. Guns made by each company can only be judged on an individual basis.
What I'm seeing in the pictures looks to be far worse than the cylinder scoring rings that many guns have which are usually very minor and basically cosmetic by comparison since they aren't usually accompanied by any peening or damage to the cylinder notches at all.
If most folks had a choice of buying a gun that was either going to develop notch damage or a cylinder ring shortly after being taken out of the box, then having a cylinder ring would win hands down.
IMO even a poor trigger pull on a new gun could wear in on it's own over time and would be preferable to the notch damage in the photos.
What I'm seeing in the pictures looks to be far worse than the cylinder scoring rings that many guns have which are usually very minor and basically cosmetic by comparison since they aren't usually accompanied by any peening or damage to the cylinder notches at all.
If most folks had a choice of buying a gun that was either going to develop notch damage or a cylinder ring shortly after being taken out of the box, then having a cylinder ring would win hands down.
IMO even a poor trigger pull on a new gun could wear in on it's own over time and would be preferable to the notch damage in the photos.
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CajunPowder, I'm interested in a similar 1858 Remington. Yesterday, I spoke with a salesperson at Texas Jack's and was told they don't stock a stainless Uberti with adjustable rear sight. I then looked at Uberti's website and don't see one listed. Perhaps Dixie Gunworks special ordered Ubertis with adjustable sights or perhaps that's a discontinued model. Either way, if you're set on a stainless Uberti with adjustable sights, they may be the only vendor with any on the shelf.