threat is down... 911 is called...what to say/not say

I think the important thing is to use only that force necessary. Shoot BG until he no longer becomes a threat. Now, I understand that will be a panic situation (trust me I've been there), but you should be able to recognize when BG no longer presents a threat. Then immediately secure him via any means possible and make sure there are no other weapons on him. I keep flexi-cuffs, and I think it's perfectly acceptable to use them initially. Then call 911 and administer first aid. You may have to take the cuffs off for first aid, but this will be a judgement call. You should keep your weapon on you in case any other BGs do happen to be present, but there is a danger of it being used as you provide first aid. Be wary of un-securing someone, but sometimes it has to be done.

This is my thought of a response. I think you should be honest, tell the truth, and not play posturing games. The truth comes out 99% of the time anyway, especially with the advancement of forensic evidence. The most important thing is that you have regard for human life and try your best to only use what force is necessary to protect yourself and family. Once the threat is gone, then you administer first aid... preferably with your back against the wall so you can still observe for other BGs. Yes, that means keep the weapon on you. Regard for life is how we should feel regardless, not just to put on a show for the court room.



BTW, I'm aware that there will likely be instances of semi "panic fire". There's a good chance that if I pull the trigger once there will be a minimum of two more following. TRY TO TRAIN ON THE NUMBER OF INITIAL SHOTS FIRED... because I feel it's really important to use only that force that is necessary.
 
I do not know how to go about getting a copy but I expect a nominal fee. what ticks me off is these tapes are often aired even before charges are filed so it could easily taint a jury pool before selection.
Brent
 
On the 911 call, I would advise to say 'shots were fired' rather than "I shot". Don't deny or conceal anything, but focus on only giving the information that is critical at that moment.

While you are waiting, depending - take photos. Without disturbing evidence, if you can get your camera, or cell phone camera, preserve information for yourself (and your lawyer, if it comes to that).
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+1
 
Hogdogs :

It seems it's different from state to state.

http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212227925.shtml



..... More than a dozen states have banned the broadcasting of 911 calls, and a similar bill is pending here in Ohio. The bill, sponsored by Republican state Sen. Tom Patton and supported by police organizations across the state, would levy a $10,000 fine against any news organization that broadcasts a 911 recording or posts one on a Web site. Patton is quick to point out that written transcripts of recordings may be published.

But nuances and inflections of conversation are sometimes difficult to convey without the real voices of real people. Especially in an emergency. And broadcasting 911 calls is an issue of public safety and public accountability. The content of 911 calls reveals when dispatchers fail to perform their jobs and when they are heroic. The calls can back up legitimate complaints about police response and prove when such claims are false.

Sometimes, publicizing the calls helps the police do their jobs. As the Marietta Times recently noted, before police arrested a man for making bomb threats against public buildings, they made the calls public to see whether anyone recognized the voice.

The senator's chief argument for the bill is that many crimes go unreported because witnesses fear that their 911 calls will be made public.....
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It's really interesting to see the varied responses. I am wondering how many are what you THINK you should do versus what you have been TAUGHT to do by a professional.
 
written transcripts of recordings may be published.
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Thus it is still public info... SUX as they say inflection could show a totally different intention on the part of caller or background voices/sounds...
I think the 911 call should be treated as private as medical info until after the trial at least...
Heck I can snitch on you for a crime you didn't commit and remain anonymous while being paid $1,000 so long as I do it on the private tip line number:mad:
Disclaimer: Only if I "think" you did it... not malicious intent...
Brent
 
Call your Attorney FIRST!
__________________
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Attorneys who actually represent citizens who acted in SD are (actually have) been re-thinking that approach.
Most other attorneys represent people who are guilty---almost 100% of the time. Guilty people are better off keeping their traps shut, and are so advised by their "mouthpieces".

If you AREN'T guilty, then saying the RIGHT things to the police can help your cause and portray yourself as one who acted in self defense.

Nobody is saying that, when the police show up, you start yacking like a well caffeinated Magpie. There's a method to briefly stating your case so you establish yourself as the one who was in the right.

There are also things you say to the 911 operator that can help establish you as the victim. Same principle applies in your home or on the street when the cops show up.

If you haven't checked out the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, then you might find their way of approaching the matter interesting, and perhaps even agree.:cool:

Can they legally use the 911 call to prosecute you , given the fact that you had not yet been read your rights ?
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Yes, It's EVIDENCE! Can hurt you or help you, same as what you say-- OR DON'T SAY-- when the police arrive.
 
Three comments:

(1) If there is anything I've learned as a government attorney (not criminal law)for nearly 35 years, it is this: It is much easier to remember the truth than lies, fabrications, distortions, etc. Tell the truth on 911.

(2) It is hard enough to react to a situation properly before shooting an intruder in your home; so hard, in fact, that the need for learning self/home defense has created an industry in the US. After shooting and killing an intruder, few, if any, of us would be able to remember and do the proper 10, 15, or 20 things recommended in this thread.

(3) All humans - including police, prosecutors, judges and juries - make mistakes, but a lawful, self defense shooting of an intruder in your home will, almost always, be recognized by police, prosecutors, judges and juries as a lawful, self defense shooting.
 
KE,

Thank Skip Gochenour and the folks at ATSA. I sat through the lecture those notes cover twice, it was that good.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc
 
5 Things To Do After A Shooting:

-Point out the perpetrator to the police
-Tell the police you will "sign the complaint"
-Point out the evidence to the police
-Point out the witnesses to the police
-Will give full cooperation in 24 hours after speaking with an attorney
__________________
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Lots of us have plenty of time and money invested in training and equipment, guns and ammo. How many of us have memorized the simple phrases, above, so we can rightly establish ourselves as the victim?
 
A couple points here folks. First, because each event will be different, I would not rehearse what to say, as much as understand what you need to accomplish, then devote your spoken work to accomplishing that goal.

Second, understand that if you clam up and don't say anything, (as many well meaning people advise) you are limiting law enforcement's ability to investigate the crime which was perpetrated against you, the crime which gave you the statutory right to use deadly force to begin with!!!
 
"It amazes me the number of folks who see an attorney as a saving grace. Attorneys care about being paid--nothing more, nothing less."


It amazes me that people with such a low opinion of attorneys will, nevertheless, expect their attorney to create miracles after they have, in a moment of panic or remorse, inadvertently provided the police and prosecutor with the evidence needed to convict them of a serious crime.

I have been an attorney for nearly 20 years. I practice, among other things, in the arena of criminal law. If I ever had the misfortune of having to shoot someone in my defense or the defense of a loved one, you can be sure that after my short 911 call, my next call would be to another attorney. Counsel is needed to calm nerves and provide insight. Someone has died at your hands and the police are going to want answers.

Only those who have actually taken a human life with their gun can say, with any type of certainty, how they will react. It is foolish to speculate as to how we, who have not done it, will react. It is because the negative ramifications of foolish, or poorly thought out, reactions to unfortunate circumstances can meet with such severe consequences that your attorney's number should be on your speed dialer. I speak specifically of the pressure to give a sworn statement, or other type of statement, as to what happened in response to police questions while you are still in shock -- and probably don't even realize it.

As an attorney I would also point out that, if you have chosen an attorney, take the time to get to know him or her outside the context of "the office." His or her kids may play in sports, or go to school, with yours. You may go to the same church as he or she does. In other words, be more to him or her than just "a client" when that emergency call comes in. Not an easy task, yea, I know, but still, something certainly worth trying. Who knows, he or she might just be intrigued by an offer to go shooting with you sometime.

<><Peace
 
I personally think it's rather sad , that we as people who feel the need to defend our homes , must prepare and plan for a defense. It's a sad state of the court systems.
 
Check in to wether or not your state has the castle act

In Texas the "castle act" is if you are found justified in use of deadly force you are not liable in a civil court. Basicly you go before a grand jury and they look at the facts of what ocoured and then decide if actions where justified. If justified no further criminal or civil charges will follow.
Check the laws of you state.
Also if you are being sued it means you are still alive. So it is not that bad all things being considered.
 
It amazes me the number of folks who see an attorney as a saving grace. Attorneys care about being paid--nothing more, nothing less.
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Many attorneys actually care very deeply about their clients and "doing the right thing". Many work pro bono.
 
Call your Attorney FIRST!
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I would call 911 first. If at all possible I want to be the one to tell the operator exactly who I am and what I am wearing so the LEO responding doesn't fear me as the perp.

I don't have an attorney yet, but am looking. I was told by my CCW instructor (retired LEO) to use an attorney that was used to representing people in court and within the county of the shooting. Your estate or corp attorney may not be the best in this instance. Criminal defense attorneys would be the best speciality to look at.

Maybe dadofsix could shed more light on this.
 
I'd be glad to share what I know, and help folks in finding an attorney qualified to be the one to receive the "emergency call." Just PM me.

A caveat though, I am only licensed to practice in two states. That means that I will respectfully have to decline to give any meaningful "legal advice" to those living in other jurisdictions.

<><Peace
 
OK, I've read what others would do. This is my idea of what one should do.

Make sure it is safe and there is no other threat. At once call 911 and ask for the police and EMTs. It's very important when this call is made. Try to remain as calm as you can. On the phone stick to the bare facts. Do not say you shot anyone. You fired a shot, do not embellish. Do not volunteer any information. Just the barest of facts.

Do not take any pictures or do anything that appears you are preparing a defense. If it was a good shoot the scene will be your witness. The police have no reason to issue blame, they just collect the evidence. Do not give them anything that the DA's office can twist and use against you.

Appearances mean everything to a jury. Don't give anyone any reason to poke around in your personal life or background.

Smewhat OT:
And of course the most important thing. Do not take the shot unless you are indeed in fear for the safety of your family or yourself. Shooting is always the last defense.
Dallas Jack
 
Man, it sounds like some of your people are Phil Spector trying to figure out how to get away with shooting your girlfriend. If you are legally armed and have a legitimate reason to defend yourself with deadly force then you should not be so paranoid. That does not mean you should not prepare for the aftermath and protect yourself.

Here are my ideas on this subject:

Avoid bravado. Taking a human life is a sobering event, and you most likely won't feel like backslapping, but if you do suppress the urge. Bragging about how you "smoked" someone isn't endearing, and doesn't make you look like the victim.

Tell the truth. If everything is kosher there shouldn't be an issue, and if you made an honest mistake covering it up will only increase your problems.

If you are in your home and you think you hear an intruder, make every effort to call 9-1-1. Listen to the questions and answer them as best you can. Contrary to another post here, often times the 9-1-1 operator does not have your address (and even if they do they have to verify it). If you are forced to engage an intruder you will have the event on tape, including your commands for the person to "Get out of my house" or "Drop the knife" or whatever the situation may be.

Don't hang up on the 9-1-1 operator. They are only going to start trying to call you back. Hanging up stops the flow of information to the police, and keeps them from being able to give you instructions. Hanging up only increases the potential for you to accidentally be treated as a hostile by the police.

I don't understand the concern over semantics of "I shot" or "shots were fired" or "there has been a shooting". It's your house, it's your gun, you're the victim, you shot the assailant. The more vague you are, the more likely you are to accidentally be treated as a hostile by the police. From the time you call 9-1-1 your goal is to place yourself squarely in the VICTIM column. "There has been a shooting." doesn't really tell the police much other than they are going into an armed encounter.

Don't worry about taking photos, that is what the crime scene photographers are for. They are trained, have better equipment, and will do a better job. Your goal is simply to help preserve evidence and witnesses.

Don't call your lawyer first, unless by first you mean talking to one before you have an armed encounter. You don't want to be trying to call your lawyer while the neighbors are calling in the shots fired call. You want to be notifying the police and getting an ambulance started. Remember, its your house, its your gun, you're the victim.

You will need to give the police the basics. "That man tried to harm me, I want to press charges." is a good way to start. Make sure you are placing yourself in the victim column, and let them know you want to cooperate fully as soon as you speak with your attorney.

Expect to be detained and to be transported to a detective squadroom. This process will take hours as they investigate what occurred, but when its done they will have a good idea of what happened and you may not be arrested. In 15 years of public safety I can't think of an armed citizen that defended himself in his home or from a violent attack that was put in jail. If you're prosecuting attorneys aren't friendly to armed citizens maybe you ought to think about moving.
 
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