This isn't a joke

It occurs to me to wonder how such a BG would react if you moved your point of aim from the heart to ...you could always say you were going for a non-lethal pelvis knock-down (tricky at best).
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BAD IDEA!

First, deadly force is deadly force. Second,
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You sort of totally missed my actual "question." How would a BG react.

I didn't say that it was a good idea. I didn't say you will always encounter single BG's. I didn't say he was theoretically close enough to constitute an instant deadly threat requiring instant deadly force. I didn't say anything at all about actually shooting. (One can assume that the BG would SURELY say you did this and that if he later had the chance and need to talk. So I postulated how one might counter in such a case.)

I do not at all disagree with the points you posted except that they have nothing to do with point of my OP. As for the assumption that I need training, I got that at the Academy decades ago, but, again, that has nothing to do with my actual "question."

Regarding that, you said that they usually run when abruptly presented with the idea of lead poisoning. I assume you are not saying you can count on that being 100% reliable in all situations, otherwise all the girls and guys could merely carry guns and feel perpetually safe. But I am still curious about my question. Would "he" turn and run quiicker?
 
A friend of mine who was a LEO used to teach gun related self defense to women. He always taught to aim a gun at a BG's junk.
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Ah, I'm not the only one who ever thought of that notion. Someone actually got the point of my post!
 
I have heard the pelvic bone shattering idea bandied about... I think the only application it has is the first shot of point shooting. Start at the pelvis, and use the recoil to work your way up to the chest/head. The idea would be to try to land that quite difficult pelvic-bone-shattering shot (which is so unlikely...
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Kindly note that I didn't suggest the shot, rather using a _reference to_ it - but DID say it was "tricky at best."
 
Now the idea of scaring a BG off by threatening his manhood... I think a situation would unfold too fast to think of that strategy
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I suggest that that would depend on the distance.

There is another point I haven't seen made. The timing could very well depend on the mental capacity of said BG, whether natural or chemically induced. Let's face it. Not everybody bought their brains from a properly certified vendor.
 
Absolutely, positively, without a doubt. Whatever is in there, he can have. I will not kill, or be killed (never assume victory), over stuff.
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There are always mixed factors. Believe it or not, some people don't have a cell phone. Some people live where they MUST take care of things themselves.

And, forget about killing over stuff. Where are you going to sleep? In a room with an armed creep hiding under your bed?
 
It also may convey (to a jury) that you were going to shoot no matter what happened.
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I would like to add, as "Mas" frequently does, that those who scoff at this as not factual must realize that lawyers can be very convincing and juries very gullible.
 
The shot to the pelvis most certainly IS deadly force.
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I think making up your mind about "stuff" well in advance is critical, so here's an advance question. _IF_ one were to want to use a pelvic shot, would it make a difference whether he were shooting ball or hollow points? I'm guessing not, unless you're dealing with one whale of a lot of intervening blubber.
 
just plug the hole with a rag to slow down the bleeding.
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And what if, instead of slowing the bleeding, you exacerbate the injury? You "finished him off".

Make sure the threat is ended.
Don't approach the BG.
Safety your weapon.
Call the LEOs. Give a detailed description of yourself and a brief description of what happened.
Call your lawyer if you have one on retainer.
Ask any witnesses to talk to the LEOs when they arrive.
Sit down by yourself and take some deep breaths.
Don't answer questions from ANYONE.
 
And what if, instead of slowing the bleeding, you exacerbate the injury? You "finished him off".
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Seems like I heard something about this somewhere. Oh yeah. "Damned if you do and damned if you don't."

What a wonderful litigious society we've constructed.
 
They can't hang you for trying to render aid. You aren't a professional healer so they can't expect professional care till the emergency people get there. I for one cannot just let a man bleed to death on my living room floor if the danger has passed.

The bad guy was where he wasn't supposed to be, you put him down and now he is helpless, maybe unconscious, just my 2 cents but if you can render any aid you should try. Nothing tells the jury that you aren't a cold blooded killer but just a scared homeowner protecting yourself and then when you weren't in danger you tried to render aid.

It may not do any good for Mr. Boogerman if he has 5 large holes in his belly or a throat full of #4 shot but at least you tried. Makes me sleep better, you do what you want.

Been there done that, will do it again if need be.
 
If I ever have to draw my gun, it's show time. It's no game and the BG is going to get some. No warning, no aiming for alternative (non COM) targets; gun is drawn, the situation is beyond salvaging.
 
BillCA: I think we said the same thing, or at least meant the same thing. Just said it in very different ways.

Also, I specifically was talking about being confronted by an active physical attack.. not necessarily an intruder or thief.
 
i wouldnt pull the gun unless i intend to shoot. anything less is asking for trouble.
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There are cases were waiting to pull would increase the danger level potentially to loss of your life.

There are cases that pulling would prevent the need to shoot.

Nothing is set in stone. If you can articulate your justification for preparing to use deadly force you should be fine legally. Just ask Microgunner who was caught in one of these in between situations. If he waits bad guy will have "opportunity" and definitely need shooting. The bad guy had already displayed intent and ability.

Police sided with Microgunner. Hopefully I can get him to chime in about his story.
 
threegun said:
Police sided with Microgunner. Hopefully I can get him to chime in about his story.
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What surprised me most was that having a pistol pointed at him didn't set him to shaking in his boots but rather emboldened him, at least verbally. Thankfully no one was injured.
 
What surprised me most was that having a pistol pointed at him didn't set him to shaking in his boots but rather emboldened him...
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Exactly. Maybe he was an exception, but exceptions are exactly why simply _pointing_ a gun at a BG is VERY dangerous if you don't know whether you can pull the trigger and when to do it.
 
..having a pistol pointed at him didn't set him to shaking in his boots but rather emboldened him..
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A cornered animal is going to be aggressive.

Aggression is met with heightened aggression among people whose lives involve violence, be it through prior incarceration, gang involvement, or general criminal activity. That's their life, they've probably been beat down more times than most people have stubbed their toe. Knives, guns, and imminent violence is their daily reality. Some guy they've been marking for a week isn't going to leave them shaking in their boots just because he pulled a Gat or yelled "Stop!"
 
booker_t - yeah, I recognized that, but my point was to illustrate that situations other than an active attack on you might result in someone "surrendering" to you.

Old Grump said:
They can't hang you for trying to render aid. You aren't a professional healer so they can't expect professional care till the emergency people get there. I for one cannot just let a man bleed to death on my living room floor if the danger has passed.
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Only if you do something outside the teachings of the Red Cross first aid procedures or procedures by which you were taught (e.g. USGI first aid).

If you were justified in shooting the perp, then his actions were those that threatened you with death or great bodily injury. That means he wanted to kill you or do serious violence to you. Thus, I am not taking the risk of getting within arm's reach (or leg reach) of him, conscious or not. If he is conscious, I can provide him with first aid items to render aid to himself. If he's unconscious, I have no idea if he's faking it or if he'll suddenly "wake up" while my hands are busy and try to choke me to death.

If, as you say, he has a throat full of #4 buckshot or my .45 round turned his head into a canoe, there's not a lot I'll be able to do anyhow. I still have the concern of whether he was alone or not to deal with and/or calling 911 for aid. Yes, my first impulse would normally be to render some kind of aid. But the more I think of the potential for things to go wrong, the less likely I'm inclined to take the risk...or let a loved one take the risk in my place.
 
A cornered animal is going to be aggressive.

Aggression is met with heightened aggression among people whose lives involve violence, be it through prior incarceration, gang involvement, or general criminal activity. That's their life, they've probably been beat down more times than most people have stubbed their toe. Knives, guns, and imminent violence is their daily reality. Some guy they've been marking for a week isn't going to leave them shaking in their boots just because he pulled a Gat or yelled "Stop!"
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BookerT, In this case there was no corner or cage. This guy was just dumb. Microgunner seems to think he didn't believe the gun was real being a Kel-tec P-3at or p-32.

Lets think this through........a poll of prison inmates locked up for the crime of burglary showed that their #1 fear is the armed homeowner followed by a large dog. That tells me that most don't want to be shot.

I have had only positive results from pulling my firearm. Once a car burglar being held at gunpoint by my cousin decided to plea their case with me as I searched the vehicle for a revolver left in it overnight. I pulled my pistol and simply said stop go sit down now and it was done instantly.

Another time I was playing basketball when a large group of ghetto youth came to cause trouble. I pulled my pistol held it down by my side and made a slow peaceful retreat. The pistol immediately stopped the advancing group without a word from me.

In fact every incident of this type involving friends and family except microgunners has seen the bad guy either stop, comply, or run. So I have to believe that it is more uncommon for someone to continue in the face of an armed citizen.

I really think its the loonies or drug addicts and not hardened thugs who do this.
 
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