This is why I have a problem with all this HD talk.

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Jim I wish I could, but my job demands that I disobey your otherwise very prudent advice. My advice is to read the post by the fella that survived combat with nothing but his M-16 and a .45 semi-auto pistol. I made it with just the pistol, medics don't get m-16, especially navy corpsman. It has been my experience that the Navy doesnt trust us 'sailors' with too many small arms:eek: To the guy who wants to own as many guns as his wife will allow; me too!~ I love to collect, expecially lever action rifles, and I love to shoot! I wish I could buy near every rifle I see, but like you said there is the wife to consider LOL
 
You don't have to be crazy or 'evil' to make the mistake the person in this article did.
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Crazy, of ill intent, poor training, poor discipline, insufficient knowledge of firearm laws, all combine badly with guns. The discussions that take place on forums like this are, for the majority of the participants, part of the educational process that decreases the risk of such things happening. It seems to me that your problem should not be with "HD talk" but perhaps with people who do not talk and think about responsible use of firearms in self defense.
 
tailgator; you are right! The title of this post was poorly chosen. Discussions on the subject can only serve to illustrate the positive and negative aspects of this topic. If it weren't for my job I doubt I would be so concerned. I can't imagine having to do what the police and other goverment agents have to do as part of there job; they must have better nerves then me:D
 
Here's a little piece of advice. If your not invited, stay off other peoples property. Most do not like supprise guests or uninvited strangers.

Jim
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Brother, you ain't kidding.

I did 12 years as the investigator for a prosecuting attorney and one of my duties was to locate, run down and serve 'reluctant' witnesses, who local deputies/process servers had failed to serve. This job took me everywhere from the ghettos of KC and St.Louis to 'deliverance country'. On a couple of the latter I discovered that the locals not only knew where these people were, they just flat weren't serving them. So I went alone, on the authority of a special process server appointment (good statewide) and only called the locals when things went to hell in a half-second.

In the worst areas, I learned to get in and out before 0900. Usually by the time they figured out what happened, I was already six miles down the Interstate ;)
 
I carry all day and have a gun on a nightstand at night, what I do not understand is why anyone answers the door at all? Unless it is a fireman or a policeman in uniform on my doorstep or a neighbor or family or friend or some little kid with parent selling girl scout cookies or boy scout popcorn, I never answer the door, I just figure it is someone up to no good with something I don't want or need. I would not shoot anyone unless they broke into my home.

I also never answer the phone, unless I recognize the number or they leave a message and I am interested in talking to them, I never answer the phone.

I also never answer or even open unsolicited or suspicious emails.

After surviving Nam I no longer go looking for trouble.
 
Just read the story. Sounds like that guy's elevator did not
go all the way to the top.

Sorry for the innocent victim here.
 
I fear too many people are sitting around, polishing their guns, just waiting for it to happen; itching for it to happen.
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And is this supported by the huge volume of these types of shootings? Surely if your assertion is correct then there would be many of these types of shootings to back up your concern.

So my problem is the 'hyper vigiliance' we had one poster who suggested he puts his hand in his 'gun pocket' any time he is near someone he doesnt know.
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Hyper vigilance and breaking the law are two different things.

BTW who was injured by the poster who put his hand on the gun around strangers? I have personally accessed my handgun discretely because of a potential threat that turned out to be an innocent. The problem we as CW carriers face is the pounce style attack. This is when someone simply walks up and punches/attacks you violently then robs you. Defending against this style of attack is very difficult. While I don't feel the need to access my firearm for every single human I get close to, the poster in question may have a different set of concerns. Perhaps a handicap or disability. To these types of carriers they must be ready to defend against every normal person or face being quickly overwhelmed. Us normal folks can offer up a defense to most potential attackers. We have a luxury that they simply don't enjoy.

Bottom line is everyone will have to justify their actions. If you act prematurely it wasn't because of this or any other forum. It certainly wasn't because a member palmed his firearm around strangers.

A reliable weapon, a basic exit plan(if practical, in many houses it just isn't, especially apartments), good nerves and aim and lots of range time is all you can realistically do, unless you are a police officer or a commando or someone else who is forced to face dangerous situations in order to do their jobs.
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No this is not all you can realistically do. You can develop tactics used by those professionals you spoke of. You can learn them right here on TFL in a HD talk forum. From how to corner to gun retention. You will learn how to mount a proper defense everything from cell phones to lights to how to hunker down.

Guess what you won't see......a single member advocating the preemptive shooting of a stranger in your dad gum driveway!

If I sound aggravated my apologies. I just hate it when my quest to become better at self defense with a firearm somehow gets twisted into something like this.
 
Post #18 Vt.birdhunter

This is why I have a problem with all this HD talk
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I dont understand, some loony opens fire without provocation, and this has to due with HD discussions here because.........?

Please dont throw the rest of us into the same category as the shooter in question.
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Post #19 TailGator

Leaving one's house to fire on someone who did not present a viable threat is not home defense, not self defense, and not defensible in any way. Discussions on this forum, and current laws governing the use of firearms, make it clear that responsible ownership and use of firearms preclude such actions.
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I have to agree with these posts.
 
This guy is not in the same galaxy as your average gun owner / prepared citizen. What he did has nothing to do with discussing HD
 
I too believe that what people focus their thoughts, energy and planning on is what will manifest upon them.
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Hook686, I disagree with the general idea of this thread, but that is a really good point; youve got me thinking.
 
One of the first things we learn in the ministry, . . . anything that is done, said, sung, written or even hinted at: there is an agenda behind it, . . . and the agenda is precipitated by the person's perception of events.

The word "perception" is the key, . . . as events are often never what one thought they were.

I believe this situation is very probably one of those. The shooter did not sit in his Lazyboy, . . . loaded handgun on his lap, . . . awaiting someone to come into his driveway, . . . just so he could go shoot him.

There is more to this story than we see at this point, . . . and you can bet your last cartridge that HD hasn't got any place in this shooting. Think drugs, gambling, a vendetta, drunkenness, . . . lots of other things to explore long before we begin to blame HD as the culprit.

As an example: what precipitated the original post? Could it be an inordinate fear of people sticking guns in his/her face, . . . ??? Yep, . . . there was an agenda behind that original post, . . . and if it was simply aimed at HD, . . . then most likely the OP's perception is wrong, . . . as it certainly had nothing to do with traditional HD.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
I agree 100%.

In addition, there is really is no way to have normal HD discussions that will have a substantive positive effect on the 1% he claims to be wrapping the posts around. IN FACT the 1% pretty much IS the reason we have concerns about personal defense at home and while out. The 99% are not the problem.
 
Why would fear of having a weapon drawn on one, be 'inordinate'? Due to the neccesities of my occupation, I must go to peoples houses; sometimes they are not happy to see me and I have had several weapons 'put in my face' as you say it. I would be a fool not fear a weapon leveled in my direction. In all those cases the person was, at least in his or her mind, 'defending their homes'. You are right about one thing, though, everyone has an agenda; I certainly made no effort to conceal mine. But inordinate:rolleyes:NO I ain't going no where with no one who ain't afraid to be shot:D oh and Dwight; your welcome:)
 
The best tactic when knocking on doors

Let me chime in here...

I've done a good bit of door-to-door sales work, and even more repo'ing and collections (not repo'ing cars out of driveways, but knocking on the door and asking folks to either pay up on the spot or kindly surrender the merchandise).

Besides carrying a clipboard and not dressing like a hoodlum, the tactic that has served me well has been to smile! I smile as I walk up to the house, and I smile throughout the entire encounter. I especially smile as I explain that failure to resolve the problem will surely make it worse, and I smile even more broadly if they give me any kind of guff. And that really unnerves them!
 
Ringo; collecting old debts is what I do. They are rarely happy to see me and a smile doesnt help much, a little, but what really helps is the firm hand shake and a fair minded attitude. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to get past the gun toting home defender first. I don't carry for just the reason that, when two are carrying in a situation where no one really wants to fire a weapon, usually no one gets what they want. I find a positive attitude about the advantages of paying your debts and a immediate presentation about how they can pay on their own terms so long as they are able to pay something each month is more effective then a lot of badtalk and threats.

I still say it is damn near impossible to have an 'inordinate' fear of being shot in the face and frankly I would have expected a preacher like the one who basically was saying I am a coward(no coward would do my job or volunteer to be a navy corpsman) to be a little more understanding. I ain't no 'hero', but I ain't a coward either, I guess if you are not 'Rambo' in some peoples eyes you must be a coward:D
 
It seems to me that we need to worry more about good people doing bad things than the bad people doing bad things, which is assumed. There are lots of people who never did anything bad until one day, something snapped. Of course, afterwards, everyone says all the signs are obvious. But if that's so, then they might be coming after me.
 
I too believe that what people focus their thoughts, energy and planning on is what will manifest upon them.
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Then I would have been robbed, shot, burglarized, caught in a riot, and all this while consuming my supply of stored food.

I could not disagree more with this. Preparing for an event/s doesn't make them happen to you.

If anything you are less likely to have these things manifest upon you if you are prepared. Just being focused AKA (situational Awareness) is proved to severely reduce victimization.

If the OP has a problem with HD talk in a forum titled Tactics and Training then perhaps the problem lies with him. There is no evidence that I am aware which would corroborate his claim. Ignoring these threads will both resolve his problem and allow those of us who find them occasionally informative to be educated.
 
For G*d sakes defend your families, but we are not served well, by obsessing on this subject. I fear too many people are sitting around, polishing their guns, just waiting for it to happen; itching for it to happen.
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Here we go again…

There is absolutely nothing wrong with prepping, preparing, or discussing training and tactics (“what if’s”) in any way. Discussion, debate, and consciousness are good things. This is a good example of how one incident can be turned into something that it isn’t by one person with insecurities.

I think Dwight is on to something. There has to be a a little more to this story.
 
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