The war in iraq debate- help me out!

Two Others To Blame

Do you suppose if France and Russia had supported us at the UN the war may not have happened? Of course, it would have hurt their economies financially.

You all realize that Churchill was not very popular for wanting to take the Nazis on. Many of his fellow Brits wanted to appease Hitler and sign treaties with him. The Soviet Union learned what a treaty with Hitler was worth. England was lucky they had Churchill. We seem to have more Chamberlain types here then Churchill types.
 
Then why dont the Iraqis kill the terrorists? simple solution.
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Just push the magic button... :rolleyes:

The US and New Iraqi authorities CONFISCATED all the guns from the newly freed citizens of Iraq and promised them protection!!!

Kinda like New York and New Orleans, DC, San Francisco and other places we all know. :p

they wanted to cut soldier's pay.
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and increase their benefits!!


Simple solution???..................No comment!!!

At first I thought you were just naive...
But wherever you're coming from... it's no accident...
It's intentional :o
 
What are all these post about The US military taking away Iraqi citizens guns??? On this veterans day you guys need to talk to our newest vets. My understanding is each citizen is allow to own an AK-47 but only allow 2 extra clips, and I think handguns are OK too. They are armed better than some of us. They took away all of the civilian owned RPGs and heavy Machine guns, which are illegal for US citizens to own too. The Iraqi army and police have whatever weapons they can get their hands on, and of course are getting trained by the US military and security contractors.
 
Glenn E. Meyer said:
The key issue is whether we can generate an Iraq that will help stabilize and/or defuse the problems with Islamic fundamentalism.
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You are right on the money, Glenn. The reasons behind why we are there are irrelevant at this point. Those who dwell on the subject are like the finger-pointers in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. "No reason to get involved in fixing things, there's blame to pass around!" :rolleyes:
 
Mikeboy

I was trying help you with your debate. I did not word my reponse well. When you are debating any political topic bringing historical references can help.

If folks had mobilized against Hitler sooner, how many lives could have been spared. Many people did not think he was a threat at first. Wether Iraq would have ever risen to Germany's level is debatable. But it is a perspective to look at.

And to all veterans here, thanks a million.
 
One interesting variant of the Hitler argument is that implies the failure of George Bush I. We had a sufficient number of troops in GWI to take Baghdad and have a much more initially successful occupation of the country.

GWBII attacked a much weaker Iraq and for some reason (the paradigm of Rumsfield and Cheney), did not have an adequate force to maintain order or seal the borders.

That led to today's mess.

One might conclude that despite a good geopolitical plan, the Bushes have a lack in the ability to excute it and/or have advisors with strange agendas that precluded real war winning behaviors.

As I said before, the real goal to institute significant social and political change in the Middle East is a good goal. However, Bush has a weak handle on the process. His team had a bad initial plan and due to the oh so well known group process dynamics did not have the ability to move away from the plan when it went awry.

How can a war winning tough guy president constantly refuse to supply adequate forces for the war even it needed a mobilization to do it? That's what I don't understand about the man.

My criticisms of him are:

1. The WMD miscalculation. I find none of the excuses convincing for the failure.

2. The inability to fight the war adequately because of the crap from Rumsfield and Cheney team.

We need a hard look at how we can win this to our advantage or disengage to our advantage or minimal damage.

If we can make it a good country by increasing the war effort, then screw the polls - go make a Churchillian speech that is not full of cliches with no new policy but one that rallies the country and makes the forces available to do it. Get the budget under control to fund it.

We can't have this half-assed war if we are at war. Stop worrying about re-elections and the next president.
 
http://www.theotheriraq.com/

the-other-image.jpg
 
Top pay for a skilled Iraqi like a aircraft mech is $650 a month. Most Iraqis have no jobs and will put their lives up to feed their families even when they have no weapons for self defense.

Headway is being made but it is slow going and alot more people getting killed because the democrats stab our troops in the back with all the anti war BS. The demos voted for the war then crap on the guys that go to fight it.

Between my friends and I who have been all over Iraq for almost 2 years none of us has seen a representative come over and check on how the war is going. They do come over but hide in the d-fac with the troops.

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Too Much Time

I guess rebuilding Iraq is taking longer than it should. After all, wasn't Germany rebuilt in a couple of days. Japan was back to normal inside of a couple of weeks. How dare they take this long over there?
 
Those stating that Iraq is "a mess" are totally ignorant of history.

If you look at our great victory in WWII, it seems great only in retrospect. At the time, there were plenty of mistakes and downright blunders made, that cost thousands, and even tens of thousands, of our soldiers dead.

Good thing we didn't have the media then we have today, or even more of our men would have perished. Imagine if they treated nazism with the kid gloves they treat islam with, if every soldier's death was a headline, if every decision was second guessed to death, and every setback blown out of proportion and used for political gain.
 
How It Would Have Been

If today's media and left wing loonies were around back then they would have blammed FDR, Truman, and Churchill for the Nazi concentration camps.

What amazes me is that we have had endless movies and documentaries about the attack on Pearl Harbor. We should, it was a turning point on our history. However, how often are we shown the 9/11 attacks? Why does it seem that it is being buried? Some seem to forget, or want to forget why we are at war. Maybe the war in Iraq was a bad move. Maybe we should have put our resources elsewhere to fight terrorists. But the fact remains we were attacked. We were attacked just the same as Pearl Harbor.

Some people say that the Muslim extremists are too die hard to defeat. The Japaneese were pretty gung ho too. They believed death in battle was the righteous way to go. Kamikazee pilots died to further Japan's cause. They were still defeated. It was a long and hard battle.

Why is it everyone seems to forget how awful any war is?
 
In keeping with the World War 2 analogies, if Bush had been president when Pearl Harbor had been attacked, we would have attacked Mexico in retaliation.
 
Maybe

Those of you that disagree with our current strategy against those that want to end our way life, please come up with a plan. How would you fight terrorists? Would the war in Afghanistan been enough in your opinion to stop or at least slow down the bad guys?
 
As far as direct military action goes, yes. Since that's where Al Quaeda mostly was. Resources wasted in Iraq would have been better used putting Afghanistan back together.
 
Isolated

So you are saying the terrorists were isolated mostly in Afghanistan?

When Japan attacked us, we also attacked Germany. I know Hitler declared war on us, but we have had many other leaders do the same without a military response by us. Germany made no direct military attack on us.

There is a reason that there is such an uprising in Iraq. I think it is because those that despise see that there days are numbered. No, we will never eliminate the bad guys. But a reasonably free and stable country like Iraq will go a long way to stabilize the region and make life harder on those that want to destroy us.
 
What amazes me is that we have had endless movies and documentaries about the attack on Pearl Harbor. We should, it was a turning point on our history. However, how often are we shown the 9/11 attacks? Why does it seem that it is being buried?

Who owns the media? The liberals and they want power so bad they will do anything to get it including bringing down America. If 9-11 were shown more often then the people would want to fight terrorism. The liberal media doesn't want a united America so the hide 9-11 and confuse the issue with political correctness.

I fear the backlash from this in that we could lose our gun freedoms should a tolitarian regiem be formed because of the socialist lies and deciet.

We need to unite and defeat the terrorist and get back to our lives.

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"I would suggest that the poor defenseless babies in Iraq should have started off by doing to Saddam what they're doing to Americans now."

The folks pulling this stuff in Iraq are foreign fighter and people who were loyal to Saddam. Why would they set off ieds to kill the man they support?
 
Sorry ya'll

If the weapons weren't confiscated from the Iraqis, I was wrong!!

I remember seeing a TV news blurb where we were taking their guns and piling them up in the street.

Perhaps that was just a temporary thing and was corrected some time later??

I am very pleased to hear that they still have their guns and are allowed to protect themselves... :)
 
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