The war in iraq debate- help me out!

[Eghad]

Well here is a start, the rest will be delivered to the US whenever the terrorist get ready to.


http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sar...10101&o=DIB004

pfttttttt..........

none of which were a direct nor stategic threat to the United States.....

"U.S. businesses and medical facilities have lost track of nearly 1,500 pieces equipment with radioactive parts since 1996, according to a new federal accounting of radiological material that terrorism experts warn could be used in a "dirty bomb" attack against a U.S. city."

why get it in Iraq when they can get it here........

and more in the Soviet Union and former States

The Soviets had these ideas.. one was a nuclear powered beacon..the other was a machine to radiate seeds so they could be stored longer. Some hunters found a beacon and stayed next to it in cold weather and got sick...
the problem is know one knows how many of these things are laying around.

 

[model 25]

pfttttttt..........

none of which were a direct nor stategic threat to the United States.....

The 19 terrorist where never a direct American threat till 9-11. Even if they do use WMDs against us I sense that there are people here in America that would shift the blame on America.

I really don't think this is about WMDs, it's more about B-U-S-H and that is fine. But I have spent time over there and it doesn't make any difference if Bush stays or goes they are going to try to kill us every chance they get.

25

 

[Pointer]

Eghad

There is no proof of the WMD's, just your opinion.

The Kurds can prove it... go tell them it's just their opinion...
Hell, they'll show you the proof bigtime!


zejs1

it was their responsibility to get rid of Saddam and replace him with whatever government they saw fit.

I sincerely hope the day comes when you can show us all how...

the people of Iraq and Iran...

and the Jews in Nazi Germany...

and the Czech's and Bosnians...

and Stalin's victims...

and the victims of African genocide should have rid themselves of oppressive despots...



Glenn E. Meyer

2. WMDs - a good reason but they weren't there and that's that. Some folks have to claim they were there and destroyed or hidden but that's delusional.

I guess Saddam used them all up on the Kurds, and that's why they weren't to be found. And then he forgot how to make some more!

(Stupid and delusional)

3. A theory (neo-con and others) that we have a mission to bring democracy to the world. Depends if you feel like a missionary - if so assume the position. Do we have such a mission - many feel not unless it benefits us.

No mission... we don't need to help the weak kid across the way when the "bullies" are beating him up... that would be to unselfish!
Besides, that would require a moral obligation... and we don't need none of that high falutin' stuff.

A side effect is that oil companies get richer.

Absolutely!! And we get seat-covers for our cars, and housings for our computers, and handles for our toothbrushes, and stocks for our rifles... cool!

 

[zejs1]

I sincerely hope the day comes when you can show us all how...

I would suggest that the poor defenseless babies in Iraq should have started off by doing to Saddam what they're doing to Americans now.

 

[Pointer]

The radicals in Iraq are not the citizen that were freed...

They are imported terrorists from Iran and Arabia and points east...

There are, of course, local terrorists, but they are a minority and not ordinary Iraqi citizens who are grateful to be free... they want to be a democracy and be free of the misery which has dominated Islam for at least a thousand years.

 

[BIGJACK]

Hey DeanC, if all that propaganda is true, what the hell are we still doing over there getting our people killed every day for???? And anyone who thinks the average citizen is happy with us being there is ignoring the facts,:barf: our troops where not met as "saviors" and flower throwing, they were met with road side bombs, booby traps and snippers.
Saddan could have been taken out with one 75 cent power point and no loss of american lives.

 

[zejs1]

Countries have revolutions all the time. The notion that the Iraqis are poor little lambs who couldn't have done anything about Saddam is a load of crap. If they put as much energy into getting rid of him as they did showing up at his rallies and cheering him on, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The Iraqis want democracy? Sure they do. So they can be just like all of the other Middle Eastern democracies.

 

[Eghad]

I have seen the film about the Kurds. The US probably furnished the helicopters they used as part of aid during the Iraq-Iran war to gas the Kurds. the US knew that Iraq was gassing the kurds and sat idly by. If you tell me how a helicopter with a load is a strategic threat?????

You know what really burns me about 9/11 is the ineptitude of our intelligence and law enforcment agencies. They are the Keystone Cops of 9/11.

Grab a book by Senator Bob Graham called Intelligence Matters ignore the politics in it you have a blow by blow analysis of how 9/11 happened.

 

[Eghad]

"The radicals in Iraq are not the citizen that were freed...

They are imported terrorists from Iran and Arabia and points east...

There are, of course, local terrorists, but they are a minority and not ordinary Iraqi citizens who are grateful to be free... they want to be a democracy and be free of the misery which has dominated Islam for at least a thousand years."

The reason the foriegn terrorists are there is because there are US troops there. Al Qaeda's strategy was to draw us into a war on thier side of the world. We win in force on force battles anytime. They are going to try and avoid force on force battles as much as possible and rely in IEDs, ambushes, and suicide bombers and other tactics. Until the Iraqi people rise up and say enough is enough it is going to continue. Those foreign terrorists have to be supported by somebody in Iraq. The terrible truth is that we can not leave Iraq even if we wanted to. Unless something happens in Iraq to further them being able to shoulder thier own burdens, the next President be it Republican or Democrat will be fighting the war there also.

 

[BIGJACK]

Saw on the news the other night that the pentegon "estimated" that the US troop strength in Iraq would be at about 94000 in the year 2008

 

[Pointer]

Eghad

The US probably furnished the helicopters

And we should sue the manufacturers of the helicopters.


The US

sat idly by

That's what "you" all wanted the US to do!!!!

what really burns me about 9/11 is the ineptitude of our intelligence and law enforcment agencies. They are the Keystone Cops of 9/11.

The entire Intelligence Community was severely crippled by the Democrat controlled Congress, right after they percieved the "end of hostilities" from the Cold War. Then they pulled back most of the foreign service (spies) and cut back severely on military spending, and soon people in the "Services" became eligible for food stamps!!

a blow by blow analysis of how 9/11 happened.

It doesn't take a genius to see the obvious...
I can see the SNAFU's as plainly as anyone...
We should have sued the Gun makers...
That would have made it all better!!

 

[Mikeyboy]

You got to look at it this way, People are going to say either Bush Lied, or that Bush can do no wrong. I have come to the conclusion that the Iraq war like life, it is not all Black and White but gray. AT THE TIME it was a smart idea to invade Iraq. Al Qaeda was scattered and desperate after our invasion of Afghanistan. People were still Jumpy after 9/11 and the Anthrax attack. Saddam had previous dealings with Terrorist organizations, Saddam is a Sunni, as is Bin Laden and Al Qaeda (Al Qaeda actually dislikes Shiite Muslims and considers them a cult). Before, during, and after 9/11, Saddam's military would take shots at our fighters, and screw with UN weapons inspectors. Both Saddam and Bin Laden Hate America and every intellegence organization thought that Saddam had WMDs. Anybody in the position of president of the USA would have made the same call. The Intel was wrong, he did not have "LARGE STOCKPILES OF WMDs" In Retrospect Bush should have waited...but the presidency does not come with a crystal ball.

 

[Pointer]

mikeyboy

+1

You've restored my faith, in that common sense and fairness are still available...

occassionally.

 

[model 25]

I worked with some Iraqis in Iraq and it was very enlightening. We were hauling rock products from out of the wire and the Iraqis would send a true 1,000 trucks.

Each day the terroist would kill about 7 or eight drivers by cutting off their heads and throwing the corpse into the back of the truck. One day there were twelve headless bodies found. Next day there was a thousand trucks there again. Would you have the nerve to take on this job?

25

 

[Eghad]

Then why dont the Iraqis kill the terrorists? simple solution. You have 1000 truck drivers who just stand around and watch a group chop off heads? That would last about 5 seconds where I live. What the Iraqis should have done is sent the dead bodys of the head choppers back to the terrorist group and told them if it happens again we will be coming for the rest of you. Fear is not a good weapon when nobody is scared.

LOL.. Rumsfeld and the US Government gave those nice choppers to the Iraqis, not the manufactures. So maybe the Kurds should sue Rumsfeld and the US Government? Nice thinking
Pointer

Your right the presidency doesnt come with a crytals ball.... but they do have brains. Maybe it was the fact that the intel organizations were being pushed hard by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.

Wasnt mr. Rumsfeld wanting some targets to bomb in Iraq before we even figured out who it was?

 

[model 25]

Then why dont the Iraqis kill the terrorists? simple solution. You have 1000 truck drivers who just stand around and watch a group chop off heads?

The terrorist go to the drivers home at night and drag them out and cut off their heads for helping us. Your simplicity is lost when you have no arms to defend your self and if you carry a gun in plain site you are shot down.

The Iraqi Army is fighting back but the liberal media won't show that to you. I have seen it with my own eyes as their troops go out to battle. ( I made the mistake of giving them the thumbs up Bout got my ass kicked)

As far as the presidency, how would you like to fight a war with all the democrats and most of the media tring to scew you at every turn? How can he put his full effort into the war with the backstabbers going crazy?

Have you ever met any of the people like Rumsfeld or Bush?If no then who tells you what they are like, the democrat media? Nuff said on this subject, go ahead and back who you believe in.

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[zejs1]

It didn't take a crystal ball to figure out there were issues with the intelligence Bush based the WMD claims on. We were giving information to the UN weapons inspectors and they weren't finding anything. That should have been a clue that maybe someone should take another look at the intelligence.

The problem wasn't the lack of a crystal ball at the White House. The problem was, they ignored anything they didn't want to hear.

 

[Mikeyboy]

Your right the presidency doesnt come with a crytals ball.... but they do have brains. Maybe it was the fact that the intel organizations were being pushed hard by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.

Then why did Clinton shoot cruise missiles a Saddam on 2 occasions and claimed he had WMDs during his presidency?? How did Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz push Clinton's thinking???

It didn't take a crystal ball to figure out there were issues with the intelligence Bush based the WMD claims on. We were giving information to the UN weapons inspectors and they weren't finding anything. That should have been a clue that maybe someone should take another look at the intelligence.

True but Saddam played the best mind game on the entire world. Saddam harrassed the inspectors , forced them to have Iraqi "Escorts", Denied Access to certain areas, etc. Then the kicker was he kicked all the inspectors out. You would think he was hiding something big, but he wasn't, or maybe he still is?? No one will ever know. Based on the limited inspection pre war, and the inspection Post war, no one found anything other than an old saran shell, that some insurgent rigged as an IED and failed (everyone forgets that story). Do I think Bush is the greatest president ever...No....Do I think Bush is an evil Genius that started the Iraq war for Oil and Halliburton...NO. Bush is human....as a President I give him a C+, he some ok things and some dumb thing, and a few brilliant things. The big idiots in all this is the CIA. They screw up the intell on 9/11, Bin Laden, and the Iraq WMDs, who did the anthrax attack...heck if they know. After 9/11 they admitted they had no way to kill Bin Laden. The best is you have a non covert agent sending her HUSBAND (who is an ambassador with no experience, and who politically hates the current adminstration) to Niger to investigate if Iraqis were buying yellowcake, and the only thing everyone is concerned about is that someone dropped the wife's name. What happen to the CIA of old...The cold war CIA. Disgraceful, and it needs to be fixed.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Most of these posts are irrelevant chatter.

The key issue is whether we can generate an Iraq that will help stabilize and/or defuse the problems with Islamic fundamentalism.

The WMD is an irrelevancy NOW.

The problem is whether the Bush team can recover from their failed post war intial policies. Almost all analysts of every political persuasion are convinced that the Rumsfield, Cheney strategy was flawed and unfortunately Bush does not have the mental ability or his advisors the ability to break out of classic groupthink to switch gears.

So I think the war had some justification beyond the WMD. However, our after action strategy was incredibly inept. Can we get out of it? I hope so. Maybe if Bush can ditch his current crowd. I doubt that he has the personality structure and flexibility to do so. Why does the White House flounder without Karl Rove? Because Bush himself is not up to the job.

 

[Eghad]

The Iraqis are going to have to learn to defend themselves. So what you are telling me is that the Iraqis are not allowed to own any firearms for self defense? As long as the Iraqis dont nake a stand against terrorists they are going to be in for it. If terrorists can move freely in nieghborhoods and kill people it tells me that the Iraqi people still need thier hands held.

What do I know about Rumsfeld and Bush ? I know that in 2003 while I was overseas during Operation Enduring Freedom they wanted to cut soldier's pay.
All I need to know after Bush stood up and promised to take care of the troops.