The straw that breaks the camel's back?

Well pardner, at least YOU too have read it....


BTW..

But since the order is not disclosed, I doubt that would be much of a speed bump.
Click to expand...

Would be in case of a criminal prosecution

WildlibertieslastchampionAlaska
 
Just a passing observation...
There has never been a civil war in this country - the concept that the War of Northern Aggression was a "civil war" has been foisted on us by the liberal left-wing socialist acedemia.
The generally accepted concept of civil war is one or more groups in a nation state attempting to usurp control of said state by force. This is not what transpired in 1861. The states that seceeded had simply excersised their right to no longer be bound/controlled by the increasingly over-bearing federal structure. They had no intention or desire to take control of the federal government or any other state which did not desire to participate.
Comments?
Click to expand...

Agreed.

New Orleans has me overwhelmingly convinced that the police, federal LEOs, and the military will NOT HESITATE to kill U.S. citizens ANY TIME they are ordered to do so, for any reason they are ordered to do so. I was already convinced of that, but NO showed it crystal clearly.
 
Would be in case of a criminal prosecution
Click to expand...
Good point. Since you've read it and are more familiar with what was in place before, are the asset forfeiture provisions new, expanded, or the same as what in previously in place?

Back on topic - I'm struck by one major difference in "Red vs Blue" as opposed to the previous conflict: geography. We've got no "North vs South".

We've got San Francisco / New York / Boston lined up in one corner with the rural portions of the rest of the country in the other.

I can't see Mr. John Q. with a good job, 2 kids in college and car payments getting enraged with a (let's assume compensated Aussie-style) confiscation. Whether this is complacency or prioritization I'll leave for those smarter than myself to debate. Boiled frogs come to mind.

However, if one stirred in 40 percent unemployment, a 20 percent inflation rate, massive cuts in entitlements, the number one health problem afflicting those below the poverty level being something other than obesity, together with no reality-TV, I can picture a confiscation getting really ugly. In fact, ugly would go looking for an excuse.

But the mechanics of how "rural vs urban" would be addressed puzzles me. How would New York, NY prosecute a conflict with Ilion, NY and Fort Worth,TX while allied with San Francisco?
 
I'm struck by one major difference in "Red vs Blue" as opposed to the previous conflict: geography. We've got no "North vs South".
Click to expand...

Here are maps of the 1860 and 2000 elections ... I think I see a pattern:



1860.gif



maps331.gif
 
Let's zoom in a touch:

2004countymap-final2.gif


I always wondered why the conspiracy theorists on the left hadn't yet put one together where the neocons / free marketers were intentionally using global warming to sink the coast cities.

Without places like Travis county, TX and Madison, WI it'd look pretty good as far as conspiracies go. Either they noticed the urban vs rural at the county level or the tinfoil is working or I just missed the theory (most likely the last). :)
 
Our individual votes do not cross State lines, so regardless of how many Counties in a State lean this way or that way, or how many Counties in the US lean this way or that way, I think the pertinent perspective is the State level. If some States are blue, but you look real close and they include lots of low population red areas ... that doesn't change a thing. (Except I think there may be a State or two which splits its Electoral College vote, but generally the States cast all their EC votes one way and that is their color, they are red or blue, not checkered or purple.
 
I would tend to agree but for the fact that the thread starter was postulating a conflict of sorts, rather than an election.

Nobody motivated enough to consider conflict is going to be much concerned with how the electoral college conducts its affairs.

Eastern California with align with south-central New York, most of Texas and South Dakota.

Coastal California will align with the border areas of Minnesota, Boston, New York (City) and Travis County Texas.

If the last election was any indication, the split will be scary-close to 50 percent based on population. But the two groups will be scattered across the country with the blue group clustered on the coasts but by no means limited to there.

Nobody, "red" or "blue" is going to give a wet slap how the electoral vote went in his state. If you're postulating conflict, you're dealing with motivated people - highly motivated people.

Ideologies are nowhere near as bound to regions as they were 145 years ago. "Red vs Blue" would be very messy and disrepectful of state lines.
 
I know the topic is not presidential elections, but you keep saying that there is no longer a North/South division like there once was, and that the red/blue are scattered all over, but I think the 1860 and 2000 maps show that the red/blue is remarkably consistent. I see a clear pattern. The red/blue are not scattered all over ... not if you look at the State level, which is what is pertinent in both the elections and in civil war.
 
It is my contention that, when conflict is the topic, state level or even county level is largely irrelevant. The threadstarter postulated that a general confiscation could precipitate a conflict.

RKBA types are scattered, largely without regards to latitude. Our society is mobile to an extent that someone living in the 1860's would be unable to comprehend.

It is fortunate that you and I will likely go to our graves without knowing who's right. That would be a good thing.
 
would anything be it

I live in Ohio, I don’t know about the rest of the country, but here the jobs leaving and going to other countries, are not it. Paying a $3.00 per pack tax on cigarettes, which by the way violates the constitution ( no state may impose an undue tax on items produced in another state as to prohibit or diminish the sale of the product produced by the other state. ) is not it. The abolishment of union jobs isn’t it. The importation of businesses like Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and all their subsidiary companies like Tigerpoly, YSK, Tokyo Sea Technologies, T. S. Trim, and Trim Systems. With their subsequent importation of employees from the entire world ( Tigerpoly boasts on having 43 nations represented in their plant. ). By the way these imported employees will all apply and get their citizenship and eventually receive Social Security benefits even if they only work here for a short time. Even these are not the straw. And even when the state government requires us to get a conceal and carry permit to carry a concealed weapon which is granted by our state constitution here in Ohio, or banning certain weapons from civilian ownership are not it.

If the government bans all firearms tomorrow we will still own them
only in secret.
If they abolish religion we will still go to church
only in secret.
If they take away freedom of speech we will still speak but
only in secret.

I am afraid there is not much that could be considered to be the straw that would cause a Civil War.
 
wIN100, In my opinion you are right in every case:) however I would likt to point out, where you mention the foreign workers gaining citizen ship and later drawing SS you are also right.:) However, be aware that a person draws SS strickly based on how much they paid in.:rolleyes: Other words if the person was a high paid employee but only paid in a small total amount he would only draw a small amount.:D Also be aware that his non-working spouse would probaly draw 1/2 his amount.:eek:
 
true true true BUT

I do understand they will draw less BIGJACK but as Moby said (a man from a small country in Africa who works at Tigerpoly in Grove City, OH )1 US dollar is worth several thousand dollars in his country. Off of the $200.00 to $300.00 he can make on Social Security he will live like a KING in his country.:) His wife and kids were left in his country were college is free and were he will return with our money from our Social Security system. Also one hundred dollars a month times one million immigrant workers is $100,000,000.00 a month. This will most certainly bankrupt the only legal pyramid scheme in our country (namely Social Security) that much faster.:eek:
By the way he makes about $10.00 per hour working for a Japanese Company. I make $15.00 per hour doing the same job for an American Company.:confused:
So in short stealing our Money, Firearms, Religion, or really any thing else BIG BROTHER wants to take will probably not be the straw.:rolleyes: :mad:
 
Have any of you geniuses posting how you want to FIGHT - realize that you are lighting up government computers and may be monitored and subject to warrantless searches?

Oh, that's OK as the Leader has the right to do it if the country is threatened. Like when a bunch of nuts say they will lead an armed revolution based on Iraqi style techniques.

HA, ha.

Anyone who thinks that some social conservative crappola will lead to a revolution needs a heavy duty tinfoil hat and some meds. You might get a terrorists like McVeigh - and he certainly got a lot of support for his actions.

Also, Mr. I'm Going to Fight in the Revolution - your assignment is to take your militia buddies and your ARs and go patrol the streets of Chicago or Detroit as you try to enforce your Revolution.
 
Have any of you geniuses posting how you want to FIGHT - realize that you are lighting up government computers and may be monitored and subject to warrantless searches?
Click to expand...

Is the reference to this thread? So far, in 3 pages, all I've seen is various flavors of "ain't gonna happen" interspersed with futurist speculation of conditions that'll never come mostly affecting others. Haven't seen anybody crowing that one might be confusing oneself with a Mel Gibson role.

'Course, it might be a problem with my reading comprehension - it's not like I haven't been accused (accurately) of missing stuff before.

Anyhow, this seems like a good time to reiterate a portion of Title II of the Patriot Act:
...provided that such investigation of a United States person is not conducted solely upon the basis of activities protected by the first amendment to the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Threats are not protected, idle speculation and SHTF postulating is.

Tin foil may be of benefit in warding off delusions of Armageddon via social conservative agendas - I expect it may be of equal benefit in warding off paranoia concerning warantless searches by big brother predicated on forum postings.

My .02, YMMV, Etc.
 
The two most recent events of any size that shows how government effects the people were the Viet Nam war and Waco.

In 1968 we had riots and bombings galore because government drafted people to go to Viet Nam. This was the closest this country has been to civil war in this century.

Waco was seen by many as the start of a civil war as the government killed over 80 men, women and childeren in a gun confiscation plan. This caused idiots like McViegh to kill fellow Americans in an effort to take revenge(in my opinion).

What will be the next straw? We as a country are asking for alot of actions to make us safe from terrorist, yet do we realize how we are just giving government more control over us. Soon you won't be able to leave the country without a passport (even to Canada in 2008) and they are building a fence on the border. Be careful what you ask for:eek: :confused: when the walls go up they work both ways, keep people out but keep people in too.

25
 

Sulaco2
Tinfoil hats all round !! Provided by the governement for free of course...........


Hope the tin foil hat keeps you dry up there :) Been a few fanatics killed in the Seatle area over the years, they were anti government too. Do you recall it happening?

25
 
Civil Unrest is not Civil War

Like when a bunch of nuts say they will lead an armed revolution based on Iraqi style techniques.
Click to expand...

I believe in a system of government wherein the ultimate authority in Virginia is Virginians. In my view, if the majority of Virginians take over Virginia, alter or abolish our government, secede ... that is our right. And if history is any example, with secession comes war, what we call "civil war", or a war between the States.

But some people seem to envision "civil war" as random acts of violence with no plan or borders ... to me this is not a vision of civil war or revolution, but rather a vision of civil unrest, rioting, and terrorism.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top