The straw that breaks the camel's back?

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VaultDweller

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What would it take to start a civil war?

I've wondered about this for some time. What would be the one thing that the US government could do that would provoke a serious civil war. Not just tick off a few guys in Montana or generate a bunch of angry weblogs, what could cause a full scale, bloody, civil war?

I personally believe that if the federal government decided to ban all guns, and begin widespread confiscation of private arms this could very easily happen.

I know that I wouldn't want to be the guy who has to knock on doors and ask for your guns, you know that quite a few of them would get those guns bullet first. This would cause the government to classify gun owners as terrorists and they would start going after "known gun owners" full force. Of course even more people would start shooting back. Things would escalate until just about everyone knows someone who was either killed for owning guns or killed trying to confiscate them, and the people who normally don't pay much attention would start taking sides. The people would start becoming more organized and the government would start losing power due to lack of support and dissention from within. Soon paramilitary groups will begin to form and things will escalate into a full-scale war, guerilla tactics vs a high tech military machine.

It's a chilling thought. There's no telling who will come out on top and in either case the death and devastation would be widespread and terrible. In all likelyhood it would turn the United States into a third-world country for a few decades. It should make for some interesting televison at least.

Anyways, what else do you think the government could do that would provoke a civil war?
 
There won't be a straw, or a Battle Royale. The Amerkin Sheeple have had the will to fight sapped out of them. Those of us who resist the erosion of freedom are branded as traitors by those who should be fighting alongside us. The best we can hope for is to fight and die with honour, while being mocked, scorned, and belittled. Anyone who takes active measures will be disappeared, quietly, so as not to disturb the neighbors.

Land of the free and home of the brave, indeed.
 
The first American revolution started with an attempt at gun confiscation.

It might well trigger the next.

If Hillary or some other gun-grabbing democrat is elected, it might come down to it.
 
Get rid of welfare. You want to make alot of people mad get rid of the entitlements.No that would only start riots. Stop having elections for starters.The constitution doesn't grant us the right to vote. As long as we are able to vote out those who the majority doesn't like then you will be hard pressed to see a civil war.
 
Taxation will most likely be the "Straw". When the Government starts to take an inordinate amount (lots more than they do today, anyway) of income from those that labor daily, and pass it on to those that sit on their butts as a profession, taxes will stop being paid. Attempts to collect (property seizure) will be the trigger. Some farmer in (name a state) with a large family and lots of armed friends will fire the "shot heard round the nation" in order to prevent confiscation of his property. The local law agencies will refuse to respond because their members most likely will be in the same position as they too have been taxed into poverty. Ditto National Guard. That will leave the IRS enforcement agents and possibly FBI to do the dirty work.

This may lead the local agency troops and possibly the National Guard troops to join in. The result will be the Second Civil War. Enough civilians with deer rifles can sure cause a world of hurt to even a para-military force (or has anyone forgotten how the Soviets got their butts kicked in A'Stan?

When will this happen? I hope never. Just remember that politicians seem to be poor students of history and those that don't learn from it will be doomed to repeat it.
 
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As someone else has already said, there won't be such a thing.

Think about this:

There has to be some sort of organization to the whole mess. You can't just have some Billy-Two-Nuts get his buddies together, spread the word and overthrow the government.

If for some reason, there were a significant number of people bent on revolting (say, 1000 or more) you have this group of people at the government's disposal that would be on them faster than Rosie O'Fatso at the buffet. Enter the U.S. military: the finest and best equiped group of soldiers the world has ever seen.
 
I dont believe that it would be easy getting the US military to attack it's own people, especially on any large scale. And if they did they would have a citizenry revolt in mass.
The military would lose in short order.
If they think the Iraqi insurgents are tuff, just try taking on the redneck American middle.
 
I don't know what the "straw" would be and I'm not certain the will to fight has been sapped from the sheepl..........er people. But to say it wouldn't or couldn't happen discounts some realities.

In my short lifetime I went from being taught to hate and fight commies to watching them implode in a very short time as the communist govts of the eastern block fell like dominoes. The revolution in Romania being particularly dramatic as the Ceacesceaus (sp?) were captured, tried and executed in short order..... Musselini fashion. It took 50 years of communist oppression in the east block and over 70 years in the Soviet Union to motivate the people there to revolt.

For right now we are too comfortable in our lifestyles and too distracted in our day to day routine to pay much attention to what is happening around us. I mean the Congress renews or extends the PATRIOT Act and we have RNC loyalist parrots on this forum and THR who give lipservice to "freedom" and "liberty" cheering this onerous POS as a good thing?:barf: Something's wrong with the picture.

Sorry, I think first of all things are going to have to get much worse than they are now, and secondly we will have to live under the bootheel of tyranny for a couple generations before being fed up enough to make waves.

However, as long as the .gov maintains its present pace of implementing ever more restrictive laws.......in the name of the War on ____________ , oppression and tyranny will sneak up unnoticed and unopposed.:mad:
 
Getting the military, especialy the national guard to fire on their countrymen is a pretty tall order. It doesn't take much to make someone fight for their rights, it does take a lot to make people fight to take away rights. If it realy came down to it, I think most national guard units would lay 'em down and walk away before firing on those fighting for their rights. Some may even join with the "rebels" and fight against the military. Of the military I think they would see a lot of desertion; half the people in are there for the college and could not in good conscience kill another American; the other half are there because they like guns.

Just my rambling $.02.
 
Getting the military, especialy the national guard to fire on their countrymen is a pretty tall order.
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I used to think that. Then New Orleans happened. It can, and will happen. Dont kid yourself.
 
The international bankers engineered the "great depression" to do three things:

1. drive the federal corporation into insolvency and receivership,
2. permanently weaken the american people,
3. make the american people clamor for government to save them from the banker created crisis, which they planned to do with the "dollar" printing press, thus making americans permanently dependant and LOYAL to that system.

The system was created to ensure that there will NEVER BE A STRAW large enough to break the camel's loyalty to that system.

Let's remind (again) what everybody already knows has ALREADY happened and has NOT caused Americans to turn against the control system:

1933, F.D.R. forcibly takes (steals) the gold of the american people on behalf of the bankers

1934, F.D.R. signs a full federal ban of most effective firearms (if it's not registered it's banned)

During WWII, F.D.R. throws americans into concentration camps on american soil

F.D.R. turns federal income tax into huge confiscatory monster

F.D.R. begins prohibition part II (otherwise known as the war on americans possessing certain drugs) with marijuana prohibition.

Basically, F.D.R. turns federal government into the forcible, intrusive parent of a once free nation.

One president after another continues all of the above at varying speeds.

What was left of the 2nd amendment, that had not been obliterated by L.B.J. in 1968 has a stake driven through it's heart by Ronald Reagan in 1986.

Bill Klinton chops an arm off the corpse of the 2nd amendment in 1994 and tosses it in the dumpster.

Federal government gasses and burns 80 or so men, women, and children at Waco while the county sheriff apparently sits totally neutered in his office being partially complicit.

There have been a thousand one ton lead "straws" already. It shows how loyal people are to that control system doesn't it?
 
I believe in secession ... I don't think I believe in a US civil war which ignores the States. Of course, if a few States tried to secede, they would be invaded and conquered ... but the way we are heading, I think it may be a majority of States which are disenfranchised, and if 30 States secede, then the other 20 might suddenly find some respect for secession.
 
I dont believe that it would be easy getting the US military to attack it's own people, especially on any large scale. And if they did they would have a citizenry revolt in mass.
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Pensioner's Army...

Our heroes Patton and Eisenhower led troops to attack american citizens (veterans!:eek: ) in search of promised government payment that was denied to the veterans.

The two events that could have triggered a revision of our government's philosophy have come and gone: Waco and Ruby Ridge. If the locals told the feds to piss off and forcibly kicked them out, the government might actually respect and fear its citizenry again.

The Minutemen are a good example of effective militia tactics, however. If the minutemen are ever actually attacked, I could be swayed to help them very easily.

I am very pleased by the amount of clout Chris Simcox has developed with his minutemen project.
 
The international bankers engineered the "great depression" to do three things:
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Get your read hot tinfoil here, step right up folks, get your red hot tinfoil...:barf:

WildbetitwastherothschildsAlaska
 
There will be no single "straw" that causes the upcoming revolution. It will be a compilation of many little things.

Things like excess taxation to support pork barrel projects in Congress while infrastructure is left wanting completely (not just underfunded - zero funded). Things like registration of food production for home consumption. Things like federalization and confiscation of private industries/property without payment. Further loss and errosion of enumerated rights and so on.

Eventually the citizens will get totally fed up and all the little "action groups against this or that" will start to band together and become one very loud unified voice. At that point the tyranny in place will be forced to capitulate or will use military force to quell the uprising of the people. I'm betting that they'll choose force and hoping they'll cave to the will of the people. Historically I'm looking at very long odds but I'm an optimist. Once the gov't uses military force to silence the protests, they're doomed. Anarchy and civil war will erupt almost immediately.
 
There won't be a significant revolution. There may be some small groups like we have seen in the past that make a lot of noise, and then surrender and go to prison. But I do not see anything that would cause a general revolution.

Imagine trying to resist tanks and guns from the military. And yes the military would do as ordered unless the orders were illegal. Putting down an insurrection would not be illegal.

Jerry
 
What if the insurrection took the same form as that in Iraq? Hard for the military to engage irregulars in any environment.

Have you read "Unintended Consequences". The "Revolution" portrayed in this novel was spontaneous, widespread, and effective. It told the story of those that were fed up with the typical bureaucratic tyranny that comes from too much government with too few brains.
 
Once the gov't uses military force to silence the protests, they're doomed. Anarchy and civil war will erupt almost immediately.
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They don't need military force. We now have these wonderful "free speech zones" where you can only protest like 5 freakin miles from the president. I'm not sure if others before our "beloved" leader did the same but I don't even remember Clinton being as brazen (and that's BAD).

This thread reminded me of a movie I saw a long time ago called "The Second Civil War." If it's going to happen it'll probably happen similarly (in Idaho). I could also see it beginning on some Indian reservation where some moronic feds decide to go too far.
 
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