The PPQ M2's goofy looks

So what's the rub???? After all this what's the problem?? Seems like were both saying exactly the same thing.
 
To make this easier to follow:
I'm going to say we look at the end products and we see where those designs originated from and which company actually came up with that design first.
That company that originated that design will take precedence of claiming ownership and the distinction of saying that is their design.
 
To make this easier to follow:
I'm going to say we look at the end products and we see where those designs originated from and which company actually came up with that design first.
That company that originated that design will take precedence of claiming ownership and the distinction of saying that is their design.
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But it's not that simple. Everyone is inspired by or borrows design elements from someone else. HK was the first to use polymer and use the magazine release common on the P99 and earlier PPQ. Walther pioneered more ergonomic designs (in both overall shape and the idea of adaptation to the user through backstraps) using those elements. Neither of those companies pioneered the tilting barrel design. Neither of those companies was the first to invent firearms in general. Do you see my point? Saying one person "copied" the other is too simplistic. Firearms throughout history have involved the incorporation of different design elements into new designs. That's how products improve. Saying one company is or isn't the progenitor of all aspects of design is impossible. None of their products are straight copies of each other. They all borrow from each other.
 
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Before I go any further, I just want you to know I'm certainly not upset with you (Tunnelrat) or your point of view. Those automated censored symbols earlier in that above post were not a derogatory or cussing of any kind. Appears that certain words if put together automatically get censored out?? Regardless, no harm no foul.
 
Yea I figured, my remark was a bit snide so sorry about that. It's because if you replace the second letter in that word it starts looking like a word that would be censored. It's designed to stop people from getting around the censor, but it's kind of silly because the word that got censored has its uses.

I'm not upset with you either. My wife is a part time artist and it took me some time to see the difference between influence/inspiration and copying. There is some overlap in the definitions but in practice the distinctions are pretty apparent, and important. I'm not saying HK didn't borrow from or wasn't inspired by Walther. Any pistol with a replaceable backstrap owes credit to Walther. My point is a pistol design involves many elements, functional, aesthetic, and ergonomic. When I see someone use the word copy I think of a straight reproduction that essentially steals from the original designer. To me firearms companies borrow elements of their design from other pistols in the marketplace regularly. I see that as inspiration, unless it is such a straight copy that it is actually stealing. I don't personally see the P series from HK as being that way in regards to the Walther P99. Inspired by? Absolutely. Design stolen? I don't think so. However, this also becomes subjective. It's hard to be completely black and white unless we're discussing patents.
 
And because of this, we as gun nutty consumers only get better pistols as they evolve.

There are so many handguns I can now comfortably recommend to first time gun owners in my CCW class. 20 years ago that wasn't the case. There was only a handful of select firearms I feel comfortable recommending. These days it's hard not to find a good reliable handgun.
 
These days it's hard not to find a good reliable handgun.
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+1000. It's an awesome time to be a gun owner. Because companies are able to borrow elements from each other and use them going forward the technology has come very far very quickly (of course patent law is important to prevent outright stealing or at least that those companies are compensated). It also ensures that small companies that may have great ideas but don't survive in the marketplace will at least see their good ideas live on.

My big question is what's next? Is it striker fired tilting barrel designs forever, or is there something better out there?
 
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I don't buy a pistol to look at :rolleyes: I buy a pistol to shoot and the PPQ is awesome at that;) You didn't mention that Greg Kinman aka Hickok45 said he had to try to miss with the PPQ :D
 
What the PPQ and VP9 tell me is that both Walther and HK have dedicated a lot of R&D to designing a handgun around ergonomics and functionality. I don't believe any of the "it's a copy" stories.

It is the same with automobile design. When car manufactures start tweaking body shapes for aerodynamics, baring any major mechanical changes, the cars are going to take on a relatively similar shape.

The real problem is that other manufactures would rather just sell the products they are comfortable with than actually spend a few bucks on R&D.
 
Hey! HK designed the magazine with ammo stuffed in it backwards -WAY- before Boberg used this concept on the XR9, I know that much! :p:D
 
This thread reminds me of an old song,,,

This thread reminds me of an old song,,,

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

Could the same thought be applied to a handgun?

I hafta admit though,,,
I'm on the side of "...won't buy an ugly gun."

There are too many beautiful ones out there,,,
That also happen to be absolute fantastic performers.

Walther does seem to be fond of making some butt-ugly guns.

Aarond

.
 
Walther does seem to be fond of making some butt-ugly guns.
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I don't care how cheap it is (or reliable for that point), but you couldn't get me to purchase a PPX.

It looks like the love child of a PPQ and a Hi-Point.
 
I don't care how cheap it is (or reliable for that point), but you couldn't get me to purchase a PPX.

It looks like the love child of a PPQ and a Hi-Point.
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I hear it shoots really well though. I've been tempted to pick one up because the prices are so darn low.
 
Owned P99s, PPQs, P30, and a P2000.

The extended Walther mag release is infinitely better. Not even the same planet :)

I think you are being argumentative. The P99 clearly inspired the P2000 and P30 and VP9.
 
I think you are being argumentative. The P99 clearly inspired the P2000 and P30 and VP9.
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I never denied, in fact I stated multiple times, that the P99 inspired future designs from a number of companies. My issues was with the use of the word "copied", which I think is pretty clear from the previous posts. If me clarifying my point and having an exchange with Mystro, which ended amicably, is me being argumentative, then so be it I guess.
 
998.jpg
 
Interesting comment. I have to say that in a big-time SHTF situation, I'd strap on my PPQ without a second thought. For me, my PPQ is the easiest pistol I have to "operate", meaning shoot rapidly and accurately as well as drop mags, reload, and get back into battery without grip change acrobatics. Not to mention that it just feels good in my hand. So all of that is function over form, and I've never even considered whether the PPQ is "pretty" or not. I do own other pistols that could be considered "pretty", and they all work just fine. But the PPQ is the one I'd want if things got really serious. :-)
 
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