The optimum submachine gun...

The Optimum Sub Machine Gun?

  • Total voters
    127
I don't think Beretta makes the M93R anymore. As far as I know there are only 10 units here in the US. I seen them for sale on Guns America like 6 years ago. They were sold by a police department to anyone in the Military or LE. Each M93R included the stock, 3 20rd mags, and a supressor. Each unit wen't for $3000.00
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Beretta model 12. In terms of total production, this is one of the most common modern SMGs. Of course, how many Americans have ever seen one?


BTW, anyone ever fired a full auto Calico? 100 round mag and roller delayed mechanism, like an MP-5.
 
At the risk of provoking derisive laughter, how about the old STEN? Cheap, simple, accurate, reliable, easy to control, easy to clean, and a magazine that lets the shooter fire prone. Not sexy, but then I never plan to have sex with a subgun, much preferring women.

Jim
 
At the risk of provoking derisive laughter, how about the old STEN? Cheap, simple, accurate, reliable, easy to control, easy to clean
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Clean a Sten?

Last year at Bulletfest, a friend let me run a few mags through his Sten; ran perfectly. When I was done, he mentioned the last (and only) time he ever cleaned it was when he first got it...over 10,000 rounds ago. Thats right, 10,000rds without cleaning and it still ran.:eek:
 
Subguns are a personal taste. Rates of fire and accuracy along with weight of the gun will tell you what you like best for what you intend the subgun for.

At the bottom of the rates of fire is the Greasegun at 450 rounds per min. Shooting it you can count the rounds:D

At the top is the M11s and Mini uzis at around 1100rpm


I find that you should pick a rate of fire that matches your thinking speed and shooting skill then pick a gun that has the egronomics that you feel most comfortable with that has that rate of fire.

I have one but I wouldn't take it into a full blown battle as it is limited in distance. I have great fun shooting full auto matches though.

25
 
The Optimum Sub Machine Gun?
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Mine! :)

HKMP5SD.jpg
 
Go Suomi! Quick change barrel, milled steel construction, drum or stick magazines, very accurate and can use it as a very heavy club when you are tired of shooting.

THe Finns used it with great success against the Russkies.
 
The only reason why any firearm could go 10,000rds and beyond with out cleaning is because the parts are loosely fitted. Take the AK-47 for example, it's parts are loosely fitted and the darn rifle keeps going. I tried on purpose to get it to jam and I couldn't. I threw heavy grease, tooth paste, mud, sand, and dirt into the reciever and still wouldn't jam. Simple design with loose fitted parts makes for a reliable firearm.
 
Depends on the intended usage, for defensive EDC in modern urban environment, a Mini Uzi with a can. small, light, folded up and hanging from a shoulder strap it will hide under a well cut sport coat. I have not tried a HK PDW set up, but would rank it similar.

urban assault, police use, liability concerns, (that is, civilian injuries in a lawyer filled environment) the MP5 family. the trigger group and sights make it perhaps the most accurate Subgun ever.

third world conflict/insurgency etc full size UZI or sten. nothingelse comeclose in terms of simplicity and cost effectiveness. UZI's cost to the Israeli Gov't was something like $37 per. When it was a frontline arm, the savings over other options allowed Isreal to defend itself and not go broke. During WWII, Stens Mk 2 were made for about $9-11 each. and later marks cost slightly more as the design was refined. although some would disagree, with later magazine improvements, stens became quite reliable.
 
The only gun I have shot, out of those listed, is the H&K MP5. It is incredibly accurate for a full auto weapon and very easy to control. There is little to no muzzle rise and the gas operated rolling block system helps keep recoil very managable. I know it is just a 9mm but when you are talking about full auto, soft recoil keeps you from spraying lead all over the place. One other thing is the ergonomics are great and the compact size makes it very manuverable. The reliability, for the short time I got to shoot it, was perfect. I love the sights as well as the overall appearance of the gun. All in all, the MP5 is an awesome piece of machinery!
 
"Loose parts move more, movement effects [sic] accuracy... "

Well, maybe, if we are talking about a fraction of MOA. But in the assault rifle and SMG context, loose parts have no real effect on accuracy. What matters is the barrel. If it is loose, accuracy goes to heck, but some slop in the bolt that doesn't affect headspace, or other loose parts will be of no import; in a military weapon (or a defense weapon) reliability is much more important than accuracy.

Jim
 
had you said MAC 11 I would have voted differently. I think the uzi. all versions of them, would be darn near close. At least on a reliability standard.
 
I thought about this a long time before replying, British Soldier. I think that for military use the Thompson SMG or the .45 caliber version Uzi would be better but for civil defense purposes the original 9mm version UZI is better.
 
Well, maybe, if we are talking about a fraction of MOA. But in the assault rifle and SMG context, loose parts have no real effect on accuracy.
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From what I hear about the groupings of a M-16A2 or M-16A4 without lose fitting parts they are hightly more accurate then a AK or SKS which have really lose fitting parts. So its not really a "fraction of a MOA". :)

A SMG in 45ACP would be the best choise. The grease gun is a good one. :)

Dimitri
 
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