The Guns that Criminals Carry - Know yourself/Know your enemy

The point is, you have to justify a shooting as self-defense at any distance and at some point, it isn't justifiable, unless you're a law officer.
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Self defense is self defense. I fail to see how distance, the gun you use, who you are, etc, has anything to do with magically changing something that is justifiable, to something that is not justifiable. Im not saying that shooting at extended ranges is the best choice/option, but it "may be" your only choice/option, and if it is, then its no different than anything else. Self defense is self defense.


None of this is to say you're in no danger from someone at a distance of 25 or 50 yards. It's just that opening fire is probably not your only option.
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Maybe, maybe not. Whos to say? Only the person in the spot, and in the second, really knows.

25 yards really isnt all that far away, nor is 50 yards for that matter. If you feel you have no other option, you shoot. Hopefully, youve practiced shooting what you have on you at those distances, and this isnt the first time.
 
Self defense is self defense. I fail to see how distance, the gun you use, who you are, etc, has anything to do with magically changing something that is justifiable
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It does depending on the circumstance. If someone with a knife or blunt object is 50yds away, shooting them won't hold up well in court, now if they have a gun, that's different.
 
It does depending on the circumstance.
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Very true. Justifiable, is the key word or thought here too.

The knife or blunt object likely wouldnt be for you at 50 yards, but what about your wife 10 feet from them at 50 yards? Circumstance, does indeed change things.
 
Tam puts her classes into Excel to keep a record of them for her resume and probably to track expenses, as she's a professional gun writer, these days.

I don't need to come to her aid; she's smarter than me, and writes better than me. But she also seems to have decided not to play with her food. :)

Sure, I'll Direct Message you.
 
The opening post of this thread is about as useful as a poopie flavored lollipop. All it told me is that criminal guns can shoot you. No kidding:rolleyes: I don't care if he/she has a Glock or a flintlock, my job is to render him/her incalable of harming me or others with it. I won't waste one half of one second worrying about what kind of handgun it is.

Although I have mostly championed the opposing view, Constantine is right about more power, firepower, and sight radius being a good thing. My choice of duty weapon bears out two of the 3 points, and my next upgrade will cover them all.

That said, I frequently use an LCP sized.380 for off duty CCW. I DO know where to hold at 25 and even 50 yards though. As a frequent revolver packer, I have learned the meaning of DICIPLINED fire, and will do my part. That said, rounds in the gun equals time and distance in a fight, so more is okay. I can also thell you that at 21' your G17 holds no advantage over my .357 mag; he who gets in the first *well placed* hit will likely carry the day.

Tamera is ALSO very correct about the same basic manual of arms and location, although I carry a thigh ride at work and 4 o'clock off duty. I am accustomed to the switch, and all of my guns are draw and shoot sans safety, whether sixgun or auto. I reload them both proficiently. I also shoot my .380 as if it were a full size, just to keep the skills fresh. I am as serious a threat with it as most I've seen with a full size service pistol. I'm the weapon, it's a tool. I have no doubt Tamera is experienced enough to accept SOME flexibility.

There were some hilarious barbs put in by both camps, but if I may suggest, let's haul out the video cameras, targets, and timers, and agree on a course of fire. Tamara, Constantine? What do you say? You guys can cover your respective beliefs, and I will champion the Average Joe view of gunning down when not at work.

If you guys are interested than I will DM you each with a course of fire. Once agreed upon we will open a new thread.
 
The opening post of this thread is about as useful as a poopie flavored lollipop.
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Scared to ask how you know about that flavor.

All it told me is that criminal guns can shoot you. No kidding I don't care if he/she has a Glock or a flintlock, my job is to render him/her incalable of harming me or others with it. I won't waste one half of one second worrying about what kind of handgun it is.
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Shows a majority in his area. They have very weird habits. Wrong ammo. Loaded with a few to no bullets. etc..

Tamera is ALSO very correct about the same basic manual of arms and location
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I've probably said that 10 times in this thread. I've never disagreed with that. I've also said that I have not disagreed with that 10 times as well.

There were some hilarious barbs put in by both camps, but if I may suggest, let's haul out the video cameras, targets, and timers, and agree on a course of fire. Tamara, Constantine? What do you say? You guys can cover your respective beliefs, and I will champion the Average Joe view of gunning down when not at work.

If you guys are interested than I will DM you each with a course of fire. Once agreed upon we will open a new thread.
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They're essentially the same beliefs aside from a little micro gun being adequate. The message got diluted due to unnecessary ways of voicing ones opinion and grew from there.

Also, I've already been given some more infractions because of this thread. Hesitant to respond. I guess I'm really offensive.
 
...the taste...
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You don't have to try some things to know they aren't good...lol

shows a majority in his area
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Doesn't matter. Glock or flintlock, HP, ball, or bird shot, I'm never going to know or care what the other guy brought to the fray until after the fact. It won't influence my decision making process in the least.


This COULD be a useful discussion. Let's be civil and test it out. Tamara, I am neutral as far as sides go. I await your reply in hopes we can hit our respective the ranges and have some fun, while putting differences aside.
 
Good article and I appreciate how we, as law-abiding citizens, must prepare for criminal behavior and criminal weaponry.

As a merchant, I come across shop lifters, homeless and mentally unstable customers in my store. I'm extremely cautious when confronting them because I don't know if they have a knife or anything.

But learning mannerisms and appearance are the obvious: tattoos on their necks, fidgeting, talking to themselves, extreme body odor, loose clothing, nervous behavior, etc. My situational awareness is always on red alert.
 
I always found a good IWB type holster the best. For most of my life, I carried mine at around 4-4:30. These past couple of years, I find AIWB to work the best, and wished Id tried it sooner. It is by far, the most concealable, and quickest draw.

Its also more secure, more easily protected, and least apt to be found with an inadvertent/innocent bump, or an intentional bump frisk, or be given away, if you lean over the wrong way.
 
I have a IWB holster for my 1911. Have to be careful with it though.
I am a Finn so, I have no butt to speak of and a big gut.
Pants and gun can easily end up at the ankles. :eek:

Not a pretty sight. Its happened more N once.
So a set of Perry Suspenders have become part of the kit.
 
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Perry suspenders are a wonderful addition to the tactical belly kit. They serve to keep my Glock and extra mag in place.

But we are wandering off course in the thread.
 
Interesting thread topic. It seems that many of the criminals had firearms that weren't fully functional or completely broken but some had top notch guns that were loaded with premium ammo. I'm not sure what conclusions we can draw on the possible firearms a citizen or police officer might face.
 
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