The down fall of the AR

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I have to wonder though if it's the no-tilt follower design with the Pmags that makes them so reliable. I'm new to AR's, but just poking around at a gun show I noticed all the aluminum mags, even with the green followers, would tilt and felt fairly gritty.
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That's part of it.

The fact is that the STANAG is not a very good magazine design. It's thin, tends toward weak feed lips, and was originally intended for shorter straight 20 round mags... going to a curved design for 30 rounds didn't do it any favors. The rounds go from a curve section to a straight one. That's just messy.

The Pmag uses a constant curve inside the entire magazine (hence the slightly thicker mag that won't always drop free from tighter magwells), and that helps too. The anti-tilt follower also helps keep rounds in the proper orientation for chambering. You can also get anti tilt followers for GI style aluminum or steel mags (in fact, the current USGI spec with the tan follower is pretty close to the Magpul Gen III anti tilt follower that's been commercially available for quite some time now).

Generally, when a STANAG fails, it's a problem with the feed lips. They get spread out, dinged up, etc. Since they're so inexpensive, you don't rehab the mag, you toss it and replace. There isn't even much point in getting just the body and swapping over the follower, spring, and floorplate (the only reason I'd keep the floorplate is if it's a Magpul one I put in). The magazines just aren't as hardy as those for AK pattern rifles or even the Ruger Mini. However, the mags cost a fraction of the others. Even using stainless steel instead of aluminum doesn't fix the issues with the STANAG design... the HK mags are very expensive ($50ish) and don't seem to work any better than the $10 USGI ones from Brownells.

Is the magazine a weak point in the AR design? Sure. Is it the downfall? Don't make me laugh. :rolleyes: Of course not. Just buy quality mags and toss them if they become problematic. They aren't enduring items, they're wear items. So the Ruger or AK mags last three times as long; they also cost three times a much and aren't as quick to change. You pick your tradeoffs.

Moral of the story: learn the weaknesses of your chosen system and how to deal with them. In this case, buy and stockpile mags, and when one gives problems, just toss it, replace it, and think no more of it.
 
30 post on this thread and not one reply by the OP to had to this basless thread he started.....lol you guys took his bait and ran with it.
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Yep - This Magog guy just bought his first Mini-14, now he's posting up and down The Firing Line and The High Road trying to justify his purchase.
 
Dork...

I love my MINI. I am very happy with it.

The sore spot for me it the cost of Magazines... I am hopping to try the new Gen II tapco mags, but cant find them yet.


I know the AR fails with poor magazines, and I want to know what the cost of a good quality AR mag is.

One issue I see with plastic magazines is they do not fit will in chest rigs and Molly pouches, they are making new rigs to accommodate the extra bulk, but then you have to buy a new rig...


Ruger won me over with a high value low cost rifle, but the cost of magazines hurt.
 
Ruger won me over with a high value low cost rifle,
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Now that is funny. Ruger builds a solid, dependable rifle that is crudely finished with average, (at best) accuracy that is grossly overpriced. I have owned several over the years and had no real complaints other than the cost of the magazines and below average accuracy. I actually think the Mini made a lot of sense when I could buy one for 1/3 the cost of an AR. I'd buy another if they were 1/3 the cost of an AR. They are the best $300 rifle you will ever pay $600 for.

While I cannot really say anything BAD about a Mini, the AR's I currently own do EVERYTHING BETTER, and actually cost less. My most recent AR purchase ran $650 OTD. That price included a telescoping stock, two 30 round magazines, cleaning kit, a hard case and sales tax. Buy a Mini and all those accessories separately then add tax and you are around $900. The $650 AR shoots MOA with target ammo and has never failed in any way.
 
I know the AR fails with poor magazines, and I want to know what the cost of a good quality AR mag is.
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No more than $15. Less than half the cost of a Ruger branded 20 rounder... in fact, closer to a third. A quick look anywhere will tell you that.

The bad STANAG mags cost no less than the good ones. Quality USGI style can be had for $10 without much looking. Pmags can be had for about $12.50 all day long without even trying to find a solid deal. There's more expensive mags (TangoDown ARC), but those aren't necessarily better. Some with very high price tags (H und K) aren't even as good as the $10 Brownells.

In fact, you almost have to try to find bad STANAGs. As in "head to a gun store without having the slightest idea what you're looking for beyond it's for an AR" clueless. The most minor of Googlings will separate out the wheat from the chaff, much as with the mags for the Mini.

You just have to quit thinking in terms of propaganda (where the Mini folks love to gripe about the AR mag being junk). For the AR, mags are a wear item. For the Mini and AK, not so much. Know the facts, know how to deal with it (namely, spares).

I get price shock when I buy mags for my Mini-14, but I get over it because that's just what mags for the Ruger happen to cost. If there were government contracts for the Mini, you'd see more companies making them and the price and selection would be rather different as a result (as with the STANAG).
 
Photos of my "High Value, low cost rifle"....
Never fired, NIB...took Ruger 3 months to replace it with a new one. The replacement had numerous FTE's with $40.00 Ruger mags. Good luck with yours........

12-13-08a.jpg


12-13-08b.jpg
 
mini

Had a Mini years ago. Really wanted to like it. But...accuracy is important to me and the Mini just couldn't cut it. Four inch groups with my handloads.
I gave it to my son.
Bought an AR Hbar......1/2" groups with my handloads.
(Note: a 1/2" group is about 64 times smaller than a 4" group.)

No comparison between the two as far as accuracy is concerned.
Pete
 
AR downfall

The only "downfall" to the AR 15 is operator error. properly maintain them, and keep them clean and lubbed they will run like a house on fire. if this weapons platform can function in places like the deserts of Iraq, it can certianly function here at home. The gun is fine. Its the nut behind the trigger that's the problem.
 
The number on excuses used for AR jams are poor cheap Magazines.

I am sure this is the case.

But what is the high quality Magazines.

Colt?

Armalite?



If you want the very best quality magazine for your AR what do you run with to keep it form jamming??
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proper clean an lube is all you need to keep your AR running. I have put 1000 rounds through mine in a weekend and never had a malfunction. just keep the moving parts well lubbed and clean it good when you done and your gun will run fine. The only so called down fall is the operator.
 
Sorry AR guys for the fellow mini owners trolling,

I like mini14's, but I had to LOL when he called his Mini a "System" LOL LOl LOL, ROFLmao.:D
 
One issue I see with plastic magazines is they do not fit will in chest rigs and Molly pouches, they are making new rigs to accommodate the extra bulk, but then you have to buy a new rig...
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Please tell me what you are doing with a Mini-14 and a chest rig...:D

All my Pmags worked in any pouches I ever put them in.

We always laugh at the guys that show up to local 3 gun matches with the chest rigs and tactical vests on.. they tend to come in at the bottom of the charts.
 
What the heck is a chest rig?

I have a mini because it wasn't tactical in a sense of being "modern" or black.

For me the nomenclature "Ranch Rifle" is probably the most appropriately named rifle on the planet.

I think that the ranch rifle could use a decent muzzle brake.

I am thinking about an old school A1/A2 looking AR
 
jmr40 spoke much truth when he said:

I actually think the Mini made a lot of sense when I could buy one for 1/3 the cost of an AR. I'd buy another if they were 1/3 the cost of an AR. They are the best $300 rifle you will ever pay $600 for.
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I totally agree. When Colt was the only real AR vendor the Mini was a low cost alternative that worked if you wanted a bullet hose and didn't care about accuracy. A clever fellow could buy $3 M-16 mags at the surplus store and convert them to Mini mags with a little work.

Now you can get an AR from 20 different vendors for the same cost as a Mini, so why bother?

As far as mags go, I'm a big fan of the 20 rounders over the more common 30's. I've been really pleased with the Brownell's 20's because I can actually load 20 rounds and they still function, unlike the Colt or other USGI mags I used for years.
 
Tactical equates to the liberal use of velcro and lots of pockets and pouches.

Velcro is socially acceptable duct tape.

I can fit two magazines in my back jeans pockets and I only need to change them every 25 to 30 critters (jeans or magazines).
 
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