The Democratic Convention made me proud for our country

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I do think trying to portray Obama as some closet Muslim-leftist-radical is really not useful.
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Stated that way, you are correct. There needs to be a couple of changes to that description.

Strike the Muslim part. Because he isn't, although he does sympathize with that faction. His actual spiritual leanings are scary enough on their own, they put him in association with some really shady characters.
Strike the closet part. Because although he tries not to flaunt it on the national stage, his actual ideology is right out there in the open for all to see, if they'll just look past the flashy veneer.

Now you have an accurate portrayal, and that portrayal IS useful.

But if we insist on doing things otherwise, I'd at least ask you to write-in Alan Keyes.
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How 'bout Walter Williams? I could vote for him without ANY qualms.
 
Bclark:

The OP is correct in that if you step back and look at the big picture, we can celebrate the removal of artificial cultural walls and the progress towards a society indifferent towards race or creed. We can take milestones like a major party nomination of an African American candidate as symbols of this progress.
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Thanks. I wasn't making any larger point than that. I can't think of another country that continues to make progress like this.

As for the rest of your post, of course there remain problems, and strong opinions about a given candidate or party or discussions about race. That's normal, and also good, as these discussions are also indicative of our strengths.
 
I wasn't making any larger point than that. I can't think of another country that continues to make progress like this.
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Your posts make it clear that you are celebrating a black being made a candidate regardless of his qualifications, which is contrary to this statement and the point Bclark was trying to make. It's also what a lot of the comments you've ignored dealt with.

I will be prouder of my countrymen and women the day we pick someone who is a good candidate, regardless of their physical attributes.
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This is the key point, and is the opposite of what you have presented. This nomination didn't meet that test, and that's why it's nothing to be proud of.

As for other countries making progress, I think a Muslim country electing a women as Prime Minister (i.e. Pakistan with Bhutto) trumps Obama's nomination.
 
As for other countries making progress, I think a Muslim country electing a women as Prime Minister (i.e. Pakistan with Bhutto) trumps Obama's nomination.
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So true. There are other examples out there as well. We aren't the first to break the glass ceiling by any means.

Again, we have nothing to be proud of by nominating an unqualified candidate. That the candidate was nominated at all is due to the color of his skin, slick looks and oratory skills, and the lack of apparent track record for the opposition to criticize. That lack of apparent track record is itself reason to BE criticized. The color of his skin SHOULD be a non-factor but it isn't with his constituency, and the slick looks and oratory skills are window dressing -- a non-factor to those who are actually paying attention. What little track record is there pleases the hard left base that has become the current Democratic Party's base. THAT is what is important -- he is a hard leftist who panders to the hard left wing of his party. He's just trying to sugar coat it and hope that most people are too mesmerized with that sugar coating to see the hard left core of what he really is.
 
On the Republican side it looks like McCain picked Alaska governor Aarah Palin as his VP selection. I think it is a great choice. I also think someone like Michael Steele would have been a good choice too. Unfortunately, the Democrats seem to play class warfare and play groups against each other. This causes resentment which is the struggle the Democrats try to play to their advantage.
 
I say for the last twenty years or more a black candidate could have been elected POTUS, but who were the black candidates the Dems offered us? Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton, they could not get elected to, or are qualified to be dog catcher.

Obama is the first black man the Dems have offered up that even has the appearance of being qualified to be POTUS and I will submit to you that it is only an appearance. He is much to inexperienced and far left to be a good president.

As Joe Biden said he is articulate and 'clean' (of course meaning his past record) I'm not automatically assuming he meant physically clean like the race baiters did.

In reality 'articulate and clean' is all Obama is and the rest is nothing more than the classic liberal ideas, of high taxes, government regulation and the nanny state, in a slick appealing package. Appealing only to the shallow and uninformed and those who want access to the keys of government anyway they can get them.

The Dems are the masters of the race card and class envy and will play them to the hilt in November.

The reality though is that the elite of the Democrat party and their members of the Senate and their primary donors are rich and white.
 
No, that's your baggage, not mine.
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Read your posts again. Celebrating the racial aspect has been your sole concern, not the inappropriateness of nominating someone based on race. Given your lack of understanding as to the major strides taken in other nations that eclipsed and preceeded this nomination, it's easy to see how you see this as a success rather than a failure.
 
Buzz:

I've stated my point clearly.

Your problems with Obama -- and while 10s of millions may agree with you, 10s of millions do not, which is what makes a horse race, and an election -- don't change that point.
 
Strike the Muslim part. Because he isn't, although he does sympathize with that faction. His actual spiritual leanings are scary enough on their own, they put him in association with some really shady characters.
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I don't see how he "sympathizes" with "that faction" (whatever that means, anyway). Is it because he's against the War in Iraq? So am I, and so are most Libertarians and paleocons.

The Wright association is a little more disconcerting, but Wright is not a Muslim.

Strike the closet part. Because although he tries not to flaunt it on the national stage, his actual ideology is right out there in the open for all to see, if they'll just look past the flashy veneer.

Now you have an accurate portrayal, and that portrayal IS useful.
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No, not terribly. Pointing out his associations with former WUO members suggests he has poor tastes in friends, but dwelling it implies he's as radical as they are, which seems like a stretch.

At the end of the day, I can't imagine Obama would change America all that radically. He'd pursue failed liberal policies that none of us like, but I can't imagine him going for anything too far beyond the norm for Democratic presidents.
 
MedicineBow, don't try to change the subject or pass what you said off on buzz or anyone else. The fact that your messages contain the tone that makes one think you are proud simply because this country nominated a black man is very, very clear. It is not imagined. That is the overall tone of your posts.

I suggest you re-read them. ;)
 
You guys dont think much of yourselves or the US, do you?
The reason there has not been a viable POTUS candidate who was black had nothing to do with the mindset of Americans. It had to do with the FACT that the black community didnt have any one who was crdible enough to run.
Who exactly did you have in mind prior to Obama, other than Alan Keyes?
All the blacks who could have possible had the noteriety to garner the votes were so outside the mainstream that they had only the possibility of getting the black vote alone.
And even then they all had issues that would have put them out of the running if even nominated by the party.
All the way back to King they have been troubled by issues, conspiracies, bad judgement and poor associations...
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America has been progressive enough to vote for a minority for decades. There just hasnt been one who could clear the hurdle.
 
"I'm often proud of my country, as unfashionable as that may be around here"

Oh, now I get it. You're superior to everybody else. Thanks for pointing it out.

John
 
MedicineBow, your takin' alot of heat in this thread! I love a good political argument (like I think you do) but I'm from the other end of the spectrum (but not all the way over) and try to look at things objectively. In the past I think members of the black community have made some incredible achievements, through hard work, ambition and sacrifice. That said, I don't see Obama in that picture; I think it would be wrong (through no fault of his own) to lump him in with the type of people you may want to lump him in with. A lot of the blame should probably be placed on the citizens of this country in general, what's our voter turn out percentage? How many people actually know who their Senators are? I wont get into how much people actually pay attention to politics in a non election year. We've become infactuated with drama and guilt from generations past and the result, I fear, will be a candidate who if elected will be a hollow disappointment and will blame failure on his predesessors; as seems to be the trend now a days.
 
Mtlucas:

MedicineBow, your takin' alot of heat in this thread!
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Don't worry, I've got them surrounded! Er...or maybe not.

Anyway, I understand and can agree with a chunk of what you say, as it delves into other issues that bear discussion.

What surprises me about some of the posts on this thread is not how much some despise Obama. An equal slice of folks love him. Big deal. That's what elections are for.

No, what surprises me is the unwillingness/inability of some to just step back for a moment and celebrate that this could happen only in America, that we are precisely the only country that plugs along, with much struggle and fight, but doesn't tear itself apart in the process. It's another step in realizing our ideals of equality, where gender, race, etc., don't matter. Where all that matters is the positions of the man/woman.

Now, when we get there we'll still apparently fight like cats and dogs -- ;) -- but, hey, that's what makes us strong, too.
 
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