The continuing militarization of police

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Seriously, Thee, you are humiliating yourself. You have no grasp of debate and a bias so obvious it's humorous. Your entire argument is based on your preferences, ad homs and the very things you accuse others of. Please take a debate course and get back to me.

Wild, your entire attempt at a rebuttal is silly. Federal funding and mandates is what has bloated "local" police. People support this obscenity because they do nothing, don't evne know most of what is going on. Why do you people always fall back to "Well nobody has been abused by the PA yet". You think that is a defense? Painfully pathetic. Tax cut? Umm, ok...:rolleyes: And gun laws are better how? The Ugly Gun ban died, otherwise nothing has been accomplished while some places, such as SanFran and NO demonstrate continued errosion(please spare me citing the silly lawsuit ban). And no, there is not more than just a tiny minority opposing government expansionism. There is the majority who are asleep, a few extremists like you and The who will apologize for any abuse and a few voices in the wilderness like myself calling attention to your corruption. Then there is this:

if I thought for a sec I was in the even slightest danger from the police or government in this Country, Id take advantage of my rights to be either an Israeli or japanese and take my chances there.
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RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!!!!! :rolleyes:

I mean really, why do people who have no skills in debate insist on publicly displaying it online? Go talk about guns; politics and social issues are beyond you(as you have so eloquently demonstrated on other forums).

In the end we'll simply leave this for the average joe to decide himself, as interaction and conflict with what passes for LE today increases. Rational people can only hope the rest wake up in time.
 
2nd enough is enough. Knock it off and grow up.

You are the one who has no debate skills and lacks a grasp of basic concepts.
Seriously, Thee, you are humiliating yourself. You have no grasp of debate and a bias so obvious it's humorous. Your entire argument is based on your preferences, ad homs and the very things you accuse others of. Please take a debate course and get back to me.
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That is your idea of refuting an argument? :rolleyes:
For Gosh sake, all you are capable of is: "You are wrong" and "Because I say so".
Pathetic, truly pathetic.
As for ad hominems, you are the one casting accusations, not I good Sir.

You are too biased to function, period.

I wish you the best in your endeavors
 
this thread is kinda getting out of hand.

thought i throw these two thoughts out there.

the tax cut was for the top 1% income earners of america.

should you post up how many people die in automobile accidents everyday? its alot.
 
I mean really, why do people who have no skills in debate insist on publicly displaying it online? Go talk about guns; politics and social issues are beyond you(as you have so eloquently demonstrated on other forums).
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A yes the last resort, ad hominem attacks. At least I can accurately cite history rather than make it up, which I have seen you do on this and other Boards

Federal funding and mandates is what has bloated "local" police.
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Really? give us some facts to support that assertion. Specifically, say focusing on NYC, decribe in detail the meaning of bloating with reference to each federal mandate a/o program granting funding, while analyzing population trends, crime rates and the socipolitical bacground of the crimes. An analysis of interagency/intergovernmental cooperation vis a vis sucess/failure in elimination of certain criminal behaviors should alos be included. Your analysis should cover the past 100 years to give us a picture how in this particcular jurisdiction your assertion is correct.

a few extremists like you and The who will apologize for any abuse
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Extremists....bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahahahah

However, if an extremist is one that carefully analyzes something rather than running off half cocked making silly assertions, Im proud to be an extremist

a few voices in the wilderness like myself calling attention to your corruption
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Scary...simply scary....If I recall that voices in the wilderness line in the context you are using it was a fav of Uncle Adolf and his ilk

WildlikesgunsmorethanpolitcsbutdoesntlikesillinesstostanduncorrectedAlaska
 
Hey Molon, cull your list down to those that demonstrate malicious intent instead of pure incompetance and I will look deeper into your argument.

Of course I could set forth a list of all the cops intentionally killed in the line of duty. Does that demonstrate the entire nation is lawless?

WildandthenumberisbiggerAlaska
 
Once a thread is this long and the lines have been drawn in the sand as deeply as they have been here, it's difficult to make a telling comment....but as I've always had a hard time knowing when to leave well enough alone, I'll try.

I don't think the original thread had a lot to do with what kinds of weapons police are equipped with, and I think that uniforms, helmets, and helicopters are also pretty irrelevant.

What IS relevant here, and it's clear enough, is the violation of Sir Robert Peel's commandment (which are still taught in our local police academy, and for the benefit of those who may not be familiar with the gentleman, he sort of invented the police) that police MUST be a part of the community they serve....and that is what's disappearing.

By itself, the appearance of military-style equipment is not troubling; the proper equipment for the anticipated job should be available.

By itself, the fact that the training, uniforms, medals, and ceremonials of police greatly resemble that of the military is not troubling.

By itself, "us vs. them" references, e.g., referring to citizens as "civilians" is not troubling.

By itself, the tendency to erode the Bill of Rights, particularly the IVth Amendment, while troubling, is not necessarily fatal.

{Add your own items to the list....}

But, folks, when it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, and has feathers like a duck, etc., sooner or later the duck is conducting interrogations by putting a suspect's head in a bucket of water or frying their genitals with a cattle prod. End of Story.

And who will be to blame? Not the police. It will be the community, that in their own fears and search for security in a universe where it doesn't exist has created a Frankenstein's monster. Read a history of a nation like Argentina or Uruguay. Can't happen here? Think again.
 
Read a history of a nation like Argentina or Uruguay. Can't happen here? Think again.
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I have and netiher of those countries could be a model for what happens here.....

WilddifferentpoliticalhistoricalcircumstancesAlaska
 
This thread got out of hand a long time ago. When I went to bed last night, it was out of hand. And I had the flu.

When I got up, it was out of hand. And I still have the flu.

I think I already said this in a previous post, but this thread went from the militarization of the police to tragic incidents concerning my dog Roscoe (see post #112).

Wildalaska, it's nice for a change to see somebody actually reads about the history and culture of countries other than the United States and can make valid and legitimate comparisons and distinctions between their historical experiences. A bad cop does not an American fascist police force make ... it would take a whole lot more than that.

Speculation (and donning flamesuit and stating this by myself as to involve nobody else who may agree with me in part or whole), but I've often felt that the chest-beating anti-government types of today would be the first to sign up for the new American Gestapo were such an entity to exist. And there's my humble ad hominem contribution to the downward spiral of this thread. :p
 
Wildalaska, it's nice for a change to see somebody actually reads about the history and culture of countries other than the United States and can make valid and legitimate comparisons and distinctions between their historical experiences
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the winters are long and dark and I dont play video games:D

WildanddontwatchtvexceptforenglishfootballAlaska
 
Wildalaska, then you are to be applauded. In my neo-Luddite ways, I avoided the tube for a long time ... then I became engaged. So much for that! :D
 
Speculation (and donning flamesuit and stating this by myself as to involve nobody else who may agree with me in part or whole), but I've often felt that the chest-beating anti-government types of today would be the first to sign up for the new American Gestapo were such an entity to exist.
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TheeBadOne,

[clicks heals smartly and sets down belt-fed .45-70] Und wieder, Danke ... I mean, thanks! :D

My German is reaaaally bad.
 
Fallacy 5: There are more than just "a tiny minority" of folks concerned about governmental policies. Dont flatter yourself that you are Diogenes with your lantern casting light, there are thousnads of folks who are involved in every aspect of the political process who seek to improve our nation. However, most of us find that making the odious comparison between our system and the nazis is best left to the lunatic fringes like MoveON and their associated tiny minorities.
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Wildalaska, I was thinking more Cassandra at Troy, but Diogenes works well.

Now I must send my serpents after Laocoon and his sons ... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! :D

(I think I have my Greek literature correct here.)
 
Tbo

Perhaps you could direct the assemblage to where I have "bashed" LEO's who didn't have it coming. This site has an excellent search engine so it shouldn't take long for you to come up with several examples.

You must have missed the part from the thread header where I stated:
Now, we all know that everyone exaggerates the story to make the other side look bad but, for the sake of this argument, lets say:

  • They didn't have a permit
  • They weren't "legal"
  • No one kicked anyone in the stomach
  • No one tore up the permit because there wasn't one
So what was the purpose and how was that purpose served?
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Tbo

By the way, it DOES matter how a LEO dresses as well as comports himself. If he dresses like an SS Stormtrooper with intimidation as the goal he is already comporting himself in an unacceptable manner.

Where is the friendly officer these days? The thin blue line has become the black line as more departments change to the intimidation color as the dress of the day.

Sir Robert Peel, a relative of mine, laid out the Nine Principles of policing many years ago. He stated that without the police adhereing to those principles the public would hold them in disdain and lose respect for the police and the law.

How many of the Nine Principles are still in effect in American policing today?

Judge for yourself:

SIR ROBERT PEEL'S NINE PRINCIPLES

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  • The basic mission for which the police exist is to prevent crime and disorder.
    The courts have ruled that you are absolved from this duty
  • The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of police actions.
    That approval diminishes with every abuse
  • Police must secure the willing co-operation of the public in voluntary observance of the law to be able to secure and maintain the respect of the public.
    They cannot do this if respect for the police diminishes
  • The degree of co-operation of the public that can be secured diminishes proportionately to the necessity of the use of physical force.
    Self explanatory
  • Police seek and preserve public favour not by catering to public opinion but by constantly demonstrating absolute impartial service to the law.
    Mollen Commission, Christopher Commission, Knapp Commission
  • Police use physical force to the extent necessary to secure observance of the law or to restore order only when the exercise of persuasion, advice and warning is found to be insufficient.
    Again, self explanatory
  • Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.
    Not if the police are "The Brotherhood" and the public are "civilians"
  • Police should always direct their action strictly towards their functions and never appear to usurp the powers of the judiciary.
    Today, we call that "street justice"
  • The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it.
    Now that is one of the principles that has gone completely by the wayside.

How many of the Nine Principles do you adhere to?
 
Americanpie

First of all, Welcome!

Things are definately different now. Looks to me like they'll let just about any dirtbag wear a badge these days.
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That is the other side of the militarization issue. The police recruit ex-military and we are left with what they get. A lot of these guys simply see the populace as "the enemy" and act accordingly.

I spoke to a couple of the old guard types several years ago and they told me they were going to pull the pin early because they didn't like the cowboys they saw coming in at the bottom of the force. The bad thing is that when these guys leave they are replaced by the very types they left because of.
 
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Tbo

You see, this is the great part, and shows how totally shallow and lacking your argument is. You don't want "The Police" to have sub-guns because "they might get misused".
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It seems that the only two instances of full auto abuse of lawfully held class III firearms has been by the police unless you can come up with one I am unfamiliar with.
 
2nd amendment, I would hate to see your town abolish firearms for officers, and then have some organized columbine like situation pop off.
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Why? The cops at Columbine stood around outside until the shooting stopped.
 
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