Archer 9505
New member
Cycles of History
Very Interesting thread. I just read "Forensic Analysis of April 11, 1986 FBI Firefight", thanks to an earlier poster. I am a history buff and find the depression era with its' heavily armed violent mechanized bandits particularly interesting. I find the Lawmen of that time to be much more interesting than the crooks. Guys like Charles Winstead, Delf Bryce and Walter Walsh were recruited because of their shooting skills. After a rocky start, the FBI upped their armament to include Colt Monitors (BAR's), 1911 .38 Supers, Smith and Wesson Registered Magnums, Thompson submachine guns and .351 Winchesters ( a handy little semi auto carbine capable of firing a 180 gr slug at 1800 FPS). The Posse of six (Frank Hamer etal) that killed Bonnie and Clyde had Remington Model 8's with extended magazines and 1918 Browning Automatic Rifles. I am reminded of the old Texas Ranger Joke.. A ranger is at a barbecue, when asked "Why do you have a pistol, are you expecting trouble?" he answers "If I was expecting trouble, I'd have my rifle".
I wonder how Delf Bryce or Charles Winstead would have equiped theirselve for a rendeouvous with Platt and Matix.
How would things have turned out if Agents Dove and Grogan had been firing .351 Winchesters (better yet Passenger side Dove with a Colt Monitor) during the open rounds of the shootout instead of 9mm's?
20/20 hindsight and pure speculation. There is a lesson in this history; bring enough gun.
Very Interesting thread. I just read "Forensic Analysis of April 11, 1986 FBI Firefight", thanks to an earlier poster. I am a history buff and find the depression era with its' heavily armed violent mechanized bandits particularly interesting. I find the Lawmen of that time to be much more interesting than the crooks. Guys like Charles Winstead, Delf Bryce and Walter Walsh were recruited because of their shooting skills. After a rocky start, the FBI upped their armament to include Colt Monitors (BAR's), 1911 .38 Supers, Smith and Wesson Registered Magnums, Thompson submachine guns and .351 Winchesters ( a handy little semi auto carbine capable of firing a 180 gr slug at 1800 FPS). The Posse of six (Frank Hamer etal) that killed Bonnie and Clyde had Remington Model 8's with extended magazines and 1918 Browning Automatic Rifles. I am reminded of the old Texas Ranger Joke.. A ranger is at a barbecue, when asked "Why do you have a pistol, are you expecting trouble?" he answers "If I was expecting trouble, I'd have my rifle".
I wonder how Delf Bryce or Charles Winstead would have equiped theirselve for a rendeouvous with Platt and Matix.
How would things have turned out if Agents Dove and Grogan had been firing .351 Winchesters (better yet Passenger side Dove with a Colt Monitor) during the open rounds of the shootout instead of 9mm's?
20/20 hindsight and pure speculation. There is a lesson in this history; bring enough gun.
A Colt Monitor (Bar) In Doves Position could have ended it with one magazine and chewed them to pieces. I am interested in the old time lawmen too. Winstead was particularly interesting and is the actual man that got the Kill shots (Most likely) on Dillinger. The FBI couldnt handle Dillenger and men like him. They are too quick and used to reactive quick violence. The FBI was kind of a step behind in terms of mindset until they uparmored as you said. They needed to call in Winstead and his buddies, guys that are used to Dillinger type violence. The 38super was awesome and In that time period I would probably carry a 1911 chambered for 38super and one in 45 
. Thats a good joke and absolutley true.
. I fired a 45 ACP Thompson M1a1 but with grip and compensator in Vegas. I loved it and found it to be astoundingly controllable and accurate with good bursts.
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