The aftermath - realistic assessments of the situation please

Couldn't each school have an armored security guard to protect the childern? wouldn't this please both sides. Im not for arming the teachers because the kids could get ahold of the firearm, but a trained professional on the premises sounds like a good idea
 
I think this is the tipping point

I think we will get a hard push for AWB, permanent grandfathered BUT unable to sell the gun later on. Magazine limit to 10 rounds and elimination of the "gun show loophole". Now, do I think all of that will pass? No. The best strategy I think is to let the news cycle pass. The antis can't do all of this quickly and I say delay it till the furor dies down then kill it in the House committee. We'll see but they will come very hard this time since the crime is so horrific. Hard for us to argue retaining black rifles right now without appearing to be insensitive to children and the situation.
 
The problem is that this is a war of soundbites at the moment.

The real issue is our wretched, Victorian-era perception and approach to mental illness. We dope it, we stigmatize it, and if that fails, we punish it. Is it any wonder some folks snap?

But that's a hard question to ask when you've got ten seconds to make a memorable statement on the evening news, so the politicians settle for placating the public with proposals to ban tools.
 
The genie is out of the bottle. Too late to stuff him back in without a total police state. Minimum of 5 round clips on all new semi auto + ban on sale of any clip over 5 rounds. Guns shows have seen their final days. With the proliferation at this point, more mass murders will happen in the future. That's when we'll see the rubber meet the road as a line in the sand is drawn on registration and confiscation.
 
Tom Servo said:
The real issue is our wretched, Victorian-era perception and approach to mental illness. We dope it, we stigmatize it, and if that fails, we punish it. Is it any wonder some folks snap?

But that's a hard question to ask when you've got ten seconds to make a memorable statement on the evening news, so the politicians settle for placating the public with proposals to ban tools.
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Tom you are VERY right. The elephant in the room is the mental health angle but that is hard to articulate. Also, scary civil liberty issues abound. Do we committ and dope anyone who is "weird" what about Vets who might have PTSD? The fixes are complex but ain't they always? ;)
 
I follow the Australian press to a degree, and there's a lot of crowing right now down there, essentially "We told you you should have followed our road map!"

Right now there's a huge fevered pitch for people to do something, anything, that seems as if it would help.

That is absolutely the worst time for things to be done, but the best time for a politician to step in and make it look as if he is doing something.

I think it's going to be a very rought next few months, and possibly even years, for gun owners.
 
There are things that could be done... the question is do we have the will and the capital to do them.
  1. One entry and one exit point on all schools with dedicate metal detectors and a dedicate armed security team.
  2. Allow lawful citizens to carry... One person in the right place and the incidents likely to have a better outcome.
  3. Place sand into the cement block struture of public buildings, brick isnt the best bullet stop, put sand in the airy spaces.
  4. Ensure each class room has two exits that exit to different corridors or rooms.
  5. Ensure future schools are built with what amount to bullet proof fire walls. Once the alarm gets hit each part of the building is in accessible from the other areas without a key police and fire maintain.
  6. Take officers who are on the street and put them in schools during school hours.
  7. Attach law enforcement offices to larger schools, keep county jails elsewhere.
  8. Bulletproof glass doors
  9. An Alarm system in every class room that is specifically for violence incidents with an action plan that quickly identifies location of incident so people move away from the threat.
  10. Better treatments for the mentally ill.
 
There are things that could be done... the question is do we have the will and the capital to do them.
One entry and one exit point on all schools with dedicate metal detectors and a dedicate armed security team.
Allow lawful citizens to carry... One person in the right place and the incidents likely to have a better outcome.
Place sand into the cement block struture of public buildings, brick isnt the best bullet stop, put sand in the airy spaces.
Ensure each class room has two exits that exit to different corridors or rooms.
Ensure future schools are built with what amount to bullet proof fire walls. Once the alarm gets hit each part of the building is in accessible from the other areas without a key police and fire maintain.
Take officers who are on the street and put them in schools during school hours.
Attach law enforcement offices to larger schools, keep county jails elsewhere.
Bulletproof glass doors
An Alarm system in every class room that is specifically for violence incidents.
Better
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Yes you can do all that. All it will achieve is the shooter will go somewhere less secure to carry out the shooting. Church -School buses-cinema's- shopping malls-etc. You can't put armed guards every where children gather.

PS What does it say about America if all schools have to be turned into fortress.
 
I'm with you Manta49 and that why I believe in the 2A. Maybe what should have been #1 on my list is using the right we have... It is the best solution even if it has risk.

That right has been denied in so many places and yet we as a nation double down on anti policies that only add to the toll. We live in a society that cant tolerate people with hurt feelings, let alone take action to end the violence with the constitutional tool we have. I don't advocate violence but we must have the ability to stop evil... The police simply cant be everywhere..

To wit: I will make every effort to educate more people on guns and gun safety this year than ever before. (and I'm pretty active already)


I am very concerned about our current atmosphere.
 
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The easiest avenue for increased federal intervention, is through the federal taxation of ammunition. Look for the price of ammo to rise considerably. Gun shows are history. Five round magazines will be the new limit. There will be a return of the assault weapon ban and perhaps a ban on all guns that look like they could be military. None of these measures will change a thing and probably make us all less safe. Criminals, will of course, ignore all of the new laws and continue to operate as they always have.
 
Well, you may notice that the NRA has been silent on the issue. Many have taken that as a sign of guilt or fear, which could not be further from the truth.
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We kept quiet as well at the beginning, and this is now seen as a tactical error as the case against made all the running, pretty much by default.
 
People's views on the fact that armed civilians may have been able to prevent such a horrific act are valid, and proven when considering the Oregon shopping mall incident.

I also agree that the guns themselves are not the culprits, but rather those using them for heinous acts.

However, following on from Tom Servo's insightful point regarding mental illness, there are some uncomfortable questions that need to be faced and understood if real solutions are to be found...

The one that springs to mind is "Why America?".
With the exception of the Toulouse gunman I can't think of the last time I heard of a mass shooting outside the US. Why do these hideous events seem to happen in the US and not other Western nations?

Surely understanding that would help guide the authorities toward constructive actions.
The alternative seems to be penalising countless responsible gun owners with rushed policies to appease a nation in grief: Treating the symptoms rather than the cause, so to speak.
 
Would it not be simpler to ban crowds and gatherings? Just let them all e-learn, e-comute, and e-gather with Facetime and such, much more easily enforced and workable.
 
CowTowner said:
Quote:
Would it not be simpler to ban crowds and gatherings?

Wouldn't that violate another right? Freedom of assembly
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Personally, I see this debate as more of total rights then just firearms itself. If they remove freedom of choice in a constitutional right, which right will be next? Personally, I have been for repealing the various state "assault weapons" laws, and I do not believe a federal law would be worth while to pursue.

Today they are talking about banning "assault weapons" and tomorrow, whats next? A bolt action, or lever action? and then what? and so on.
 
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The feeding frenzy by the media over this tragedy will drive knee jerk legislation attempts for sure. Only thing I've read or seen on the news is magazine limits to 10 rounds and 'assault' rifle ban. With all the other turmoil in Washington it will be most interesting to see how this plays out.
 
I believe in letting the other side rave and rant, then when people cool down, a saner and more rational discussion can be held. I point out that laws against murder don't seem to deter a lot of people.
Our "Victorian" system of the deal with the "mentally ill" was abandoned over 40 years ago in favor of "community" based treatment that treats such people with "dignity" and respects their "rights"-and has resulted in people who should be locked up or isolated if you prefer allowed to mix with decent people. I note that the current definition of "Anti-Social Personality Disorder" includes:
"Lack of empathy for others"
Or, as my late mother once put it "People who can't spend more than 10 seconds a day thinking about anybody but themselves".
 
So far today we've lost two Democratic senators -- Warner and Mancin -- who have been supporters of firearms rights in the past.

That's a very, very bad sign.
 
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