TFL is leading the Way..In Cop Bashing

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I'm going to try again.

In my previous post, #9, I contrasted the differences in the view of professionalism between law enforcement and my own profession, nursing. I see these two professions as being more similar than most would. If need be, will list the similarities, but I will let them go as an axiom for now, for the sake of brevity.

Recently, a gallup poll listed nurses as the #1 profession in light of ethical behavior. How I wish this could have been Policemen. Policemen had attained 65(+ or -)percent, while nurses scored highest at 82-83 percent. On that particular thread, which died early, I complimented LEOs on their accomplishment, they had risen considerably in that poll. Our policemen need to fall in the 90th percentile though. To reach that level, they have GOT to listen to what is being said, instead of simply dismissing it as "cop bashing". Do not dismiss the gallup poll as invalid. If you do, then you have shut out yet another avenue of reversing this trend you dislike.

In nursing we routinely gather responses on our performance from those who we serve. We do this so that we can improve our service. Yes, we get apparently unjustified emotional responses when someone has sat for 6 hours in an emergency waiting area, as well as other reasons for dissatisfaction. We try to look deeper, and we do not dismiss the emotional responses which trouble us the most. In reality, those emotional responses are the ones that help the most, if we can just get to the core issue.

At one time, men in law enforcement were active members in their communities. We saw them as citizens at town hall meetings, we conversed with them at the barber shop, we got together to BBQ on Sunday afternoons while the kids played cops and robbers in the pasture. Where has that all gone? Even in the smallest towns, law enforcement has sought to insulate themselves from the communities they serve for the past three decades. Sure, they have the Community Liaison running around doing her thing, and the DARE program in the schools, but the actual officers on the street seem to disappear when they take off their uniform.

My father had many friends in law enforcement, eventhough he was a private citizen. Many of those men were my mentors after my father died (I was 2 yo at the time). One was my Godfather. These were close friends. Policemen known through the community as unquestionably upstanding men of the law, the same as the preacher was known as a man of the cloth. Where is that today? I have no, zero, zilch friends my own age (42) or younger, in law enforcement. Yes, I know more than I can count on both hands, by name, because our children attend the same school, or we go to the same church. The level of suspicion among these men whenever an outsider tries to foster a friendship is palpable though. Friendship cannot bloom among suspicion. Trust cannot blossom without friendship. Thus, I have never been able to become friends with a modern day police officer, eventhough the older officers I have as patients are very close friends with me. I am a law abiding citizen, I am a respected citizen, I am a quiet man who goes about my life being productive in society and raising a family. Yet, I am not worthy of a policeman's simple friendship, and instead get sneers of distain when I speak to a cop in passing at church.

When law enforcement began to insulate themselves from their communities in the 1970s, they threw away the one tool they had that was most effective at doing their jobs. That tool was the support of their communities and the willingness of citizens to give a cop the benefit of the doubt. Now, when the well is dry, law enforcement has finally realized the value of that which they discarded for tacticality and special weapons. It's going to be a long hard trip back, and it cannot be done with your mind closed and voices raised.

All that being said, I still respect the police officers who go about their days performing their duties with glace and aplomb. There are few people more valuable to society than an honest cop.

BTW, the Danziger Bridge incident is a veeeeeery bad example.
I was gently speaking of the Robert Davis incident in post #9 in case the message did not quite make it through.
 
However, all I needed to do was hear about the Virginia cops who arrested the New Jersey cops that were driving 110 mph through their state, then go to police forums and see other cops blasting the Va cops for not supporting the others breaking the law, to lose a lot of respect for some LEOs.
Bingo. +1

Another recent example was the gun confiscations in New Orleans. Hearing Compass and Riley's words, whether the orders were followed or not, sent shockwaves through many people who support law enforcement. Where did most cops stand when these words of gun confiscation were declared? They were on the side of the confiscators, or sitting on the fence waiting for more information. The very fact that these confiscations have not been denounced nationwide by law enforcement illustrates to the law abiding gun owner where he stands in the big picture. The lack of denouncement by law enforcement for these proclamations of gun confiscation speaks volumes in the us versus them debate.

This is not a situation of three separate groups, cops, citizens, and criminals. It is a situation of two groups, citizens and criminals. Some of the citizens happen to be cops, but they are first citizens. The citizens and cops must begin to see themselves as having common goals again. The cops are not subservient to the citizens, and the citizens are not subservient to the cops. They must be one. The criminal force has divided us, and they are beginning to conquer.
 
An observation:

Someone posts a negative factual story about a specific LEO, and that is construed as "cop bashing".


Someone uses immensely derogatory language for Democrats in general (who are what - 40% of the population, and number more than a few on this board) and that is considered germane? Just the other day a moderator read and responded to a post with the word "democrap" without comment or censure.


If it is acceptable to post alienating insults against general portions of the US population, why should posts critical of a small portion of a small group be anything to complain about? You don't tell someone they are using the wrong fork for salad and ignore their feet on the dinner table. That's exactly what goes on here.


If you guys want a polite and fair board, I'd recommend you carry that through.
 
"Where has that all gone? Even in the smallest towns, law enforcement has sought to insulate themselves from the communities they serve for the past three decades. Sure, they have the Community Liaison running around doing her thing, and the DARE program in the schools, but the actual officers on the street seem to disappear when they take off their uniform."

Good post, particularly the quote above! I don't know where it's gone, but it's certainly not like it was when my father was a State Trooper and his 1st cousin was the county sheriff.

It really hit home about ten years ago. The guy renting the house next to me said he wanted me to meet the man who was going to be moving in to share expenses for a few months. I stuck my hand across the fence and introduced myself. The guy looked at me and said "I'm a policeman." Wouldn't even shake my hand. I never did figure out what his problem was - the other guy didn't know either. I hope he got out of police work.

John
 
I know I'll probably not win a lot of favor with this post, but here goes...

First off, this is more of a sociological issue than anything. Our society finds it much more pleasant and easier to hide from reality when it can simply point the finger of blame. Columbine, the School and LE was blamed for the actions of the teens and the lack of supervision by the parents. Rodney King, a short video was used to condemn officers before anyone even considered WHY. New Orleans, FEMA was blamed for it's response when most of the people neglected to follow the MANDATORY evacuation. LE is cursed for not being there when someone is a victim, and cursed when someone is the wrong-doer. Are there bad cops, of course. Is it the majority, no. I have watched many posters claim to be pro LE but anti abuse or whatever term they use, and still their words are basically "cops are bad, they won't do that to me or I'll.., etc and so on". LEO don't make the laws, they enforce them. If you break the law, don't blame the LEO for doing his job. If he (she) abuses power or does something wrong, then HE OR SHE is at fault, not Cops in general.

I probably shouldn't relate this, but I will anyway. An old cop I once new was asked by a young lady on his retirement day a simple question, and his answer has not only echoed in my mind for years since, but changed my view on the entire subject of "Cops sticking up for each other". The question was why Cops cut each other breaks, his answer was this.... " It's simple, when I'm on the side of the road in a life or death struggle with some crazed perp, there are only two kinds of people that will step up and help me. Other Cops and the righteous. I'm 53 years old and I don't think I've ever met a righteous person, You are damn skippy I'm gonna cut another Cop a break."

Couple that with the fact that they tend to be accused of one wrong or another no matter what they do, and there is a reason for the closeness. Right or wrong, I can at least understand. In a nutshell, if you think an LEO has done something wrong, fine. If you want to rant on how you despise it or him/her, fine. Don't lump them all together, or you are no better than the White Supremiscist that thinks because a black man committed a crime that all blacks are criminals.

Let the flame war begin(continue)

Doc
 
Seems like some folks never remember when things go right 90 percent of the time. They do remember the 10% of the times that things went wrong no matter if it was for reasons beyond your control.

That 3% will stain the reputation of the 97 percent doing things the right way.

80% of my problems are caused by 20% of the folks I deal with.
 
It's simple, when I'm on the side of the bed in a life or death struggle with some dying patient, there are only two kinds of people that will step up and help me. Other nurses and maybe a physician. I'm 42 years old. When I enter a fight for my own life I pray that a nurse or physician will assist me.

When I see nurses stealing medications, falsifying reports, and giving substandard care, I report it and go after their license. When I see physicians buying and selling patients, accepting kickbacks for prescriptions, and performing surgery impaired by alcohol, I do the same. This is what is expected of nurses. This is why we enjoy that perception of high ethical standards. Yes, we have our duds and our idiots among us, every profession does. The difference is we refuse to accept them, we do not tolerate them,and we darned sure do not protect them.
 
+1 ;)

Clap.gif
 
There is an old addage that comes to mind... " closed minds lead to open mouths".

I have yet to meet a cop that would cover up a serious situation. My point of relaying that story was to grant a small insight to help bridge the gap. Maybe I overestimated the intellect or compassion of some, oh well.

As long as people remain reactionary and WANT to point a finger, people that WANT to see a difference, there will be one. I too have ripped nursing licenses from many, but I have also stood up and defended fellow nurses if I believed they were not in the wrong. I would stand by a fellow medical professional before anyone else until I had a reason to believe their guilt. You can choose to allay blame, or you can choose to try and understand. And maybe, just maybe, your efforts to understand can make that needed difference.

I can at least give some of you credit, you have chosen your side of the fence. Personally, I prefer to spend my time trying to tear down the fence.

Doc
 
DocFox said:
I have yet to meet a cop that would cover up a serious situation.
Who's in charge of determining what's "serious" and what's not? Cops in my area were busted for covering up DUI's amongst one another (this was about 4-5 yrs ago IIRC). Is that serious? Where does one draw the line?

Stuff like this promotes general disdain towards LEOs. Were they covering up a murder or rape? No, but it's still serious in my opinion, to allow your fellow officers to get plowed and drive around w/out the same fear that they'll have to pay the piper if they break the law.
 
Wildcard & MRex21 - Knock off the ad hominem.

What the hell are you talking about? Looks like the only post you deleted was mine. How 'objective'. I look back and see that WildCard's anti-cop posts are largely untouched.

You mods are a joke.
 
Trip, that is not the kind of behavior I meant. Although trying to explain may be nitpicked even further.... think of it this way, the things a cop might "cut YOU a break on" ( reasonable speeding, popping a guy in the mouth for grabbing your wifes butt, rolling through a stop sign, etc) is what they normally don't even hesitate on with other cops. Falsifying reports, DUI, brutality, drug use, etc. are the kinds of actions that degrade all and are inexcusable. I know a former officer that would only write a speeding ticket to you if it was excessive speed(or lack thereof) or if you copped an attitude when he approached you about it (or if he had pulled you repeatedly for doing the same thing). It's called "best(good) judgement" , something we all have to one degree or another in our prospective careers. XavierBreath used the analogy of other nurses stealing meds, technically that includes a tylonol if it doesn't come out of a first aid kit or from employee health. Should every nurse that takes a tylonol for a headache from their cart be reported?

I admittedly find this desire to steadfastly expect perfection from Law Enforcement when we don't expect it of ourselves to be quite disturbing. We all have choices, you can choose to carry things to the extreme and nitpick everything to preserve your opinion, or you can choose to make a positive influence, the choice is yours. In another thread, I watched as people took extreme sides, and Rich kept repeating that he didn't have enough information to make a judgement. He was hounded because he kept an open mind and refused to judge quickly. Although I don't agree with some things he says or feels, I can respect him for making sure of the facts before he makes a stand. If only WE could all make that claim.

Doc
 
DocFox said:
I admittedly find this desire to steadfastly expect perfection from Law Enforcement when we don't expect it of ourselves to be quite disturbing.
I agree. But I don't think that's what's happening here. If it were, I'd be disgusted too.

Whats happening, is we have discussions about the "1%-ers" - that is, the 1% of cops who's questionable activity finds its way into our forum (this is assuming you believe that 99% of officers are good, honest human beings - your percentages may vary).

This is entirely different than a supposed "desire to steadfastly expect perfection from Law Enforcement". For every thread about an officers questionable activity, I promise you there's at least one about a civilian. I bet the ratio is much greater leaning towards the civilian, but I'm not going to bother searching for, and posting links - I'm lazy, and anyone that wishes to investigate can do it on their own.

If we can't discuss what we see in a particular video, with out making a bazillion disclaimers prior to commenting, then why should we bother posting? No one was actually there, in person, as a witness. So, all we have are our eyes to watch the video, and read the often-times baised reporting of some media person.

For every non-LEO screaming "foul play - fire the cop", there's a LEO speculating about a "bad day" that the officer may have had, or the fact that he could have come from a "disturbing call" prior to what your viewing...etc. All of it is speculation.

Using our imagination to try to figure out what may have occurred isn't necessarily a bad thing. To partake in a course of reasoning based on inconclusive evidence isn't so bad as long as one remembers their imagination is making up a large percentage of their initial opinion. If that same person is then willing to adjust their stance as new credible evidence is put forth, that person is entirely reasonable in my opinion.
 
For every non-LEO screaming "foul play - fire the cop", there's a LEO speculating about a "bad day" that the officer may have had, or the fact that he could have come from a "disturbing call" prior to what your viewing...etc.

If prior calls effects how future calls/instances are handled, the guy does not need to be a cop. Simple.
 
Trip, I have to disagree with you. You need only open the L&P forum and you'll see plenty of threads the are pointed at cops. How many threads do you see that point out glaring errors (or even minor ones) among the general populace.
As soon as some article is read somewhere in the world about a cop (yes , in the world) doing something wrong (or perceived to be wrong), it's immediately posted. It's like a bite reflex when fishing. Just pull the shiny, fast moving lure by the fish, and it cannot stop the urge to strike it.
It just seems to me that a good percentage of members actually spend their time searching for the 1-2%s that fall on their LEO swords. It comes to a point where it is no longer constructive, but destructive. No matter what you say on the internet, someones panties are going to get twisted up. I'm certainly advocating callling a spade a spade. But a what point is enough, enough?
 
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