Texas Public School District First To OK Conceal Carry At All Levels.

[Derius_T]

Plinky and S832, I can't even begin to sort through all of your posts, because honestly, without being rude, your logic just makes no good sense to me. That said, let me just ask you one simple question.

Your kids is in school. Some maniac adult, or maniac kid comes into the school with only one purpose, and that is to kill anyone and everyone they can before they either get killed by the cops, or they kill themselves. Nothing is going to stop them, short of death. They begin to walk down the halls and into classrooms, methodically shooting kids and teachers alike. Someone calls 911 at the very first shot, or 1 better, as they see the person walking into the building with the gun, before the shooting even starts. The cops are on their way. Lets assume they are only 10 minutes away, with no traffic, instead of 30.

So our killer has at least 10 solid minutes to calmly walk through the school, killing everyone they see, and no one can do a damn thing about it, because no one has anything to counter them with. So, lets go further and figure that after the 10 minutes or so, the cops do arrive. The maniac hears the cops coming and shoots themselves. Threat ended.

Now, all said and done, 30+ people are dead. Kids and teachers alike. All slaughtered like helpless, frightened, huddled animals. They screamed and cried, or maybe begged or prayed as the killer continued to shoot them one by one. They were all powerless to stop the madness.

They were rendered completely helpless and defenseless; robbed of even the slightest CHANCE to save their own lives, by someone like.....you.....


Now. Your kid could have been in that school that day. Could be tomorrow. You can't know. No one can. Wouldn't you want someone, ANYONE, with any chance at all, no matter how slight, to try to save those lives? No matter how well oiled of a machine they were or any of that bull****? Wouldn't you want any screaming, kicking, God-Blessed CHANCE that there was to be used to save those kids?

I don't care if it was an 80 year old half blind grandmother with the palsy that shot that bastard dead, as long as SOMEONE HAD A FIGHTING CHANCE TO TRY!

What gives you the right, in your self important arrogance and blind panic to deny me or my kids even the slightest chance to fight for their lives?

If you can honestly come up with the same crap you posted earlier, and justify taking away their chance to fight back, then you better hope someone else out there has the balls to step up when its your kid, be they part time janitor, or freakin rambo himself.....

 

[GPossenti]

The cost argument is silly. Those who want to carry a gun will buy their own guns and ammo. (I don't think I've ever heard of a gun owner asking for federal funding of personal firearms.)

There are 1,000 programs in public schools that could be eliminated to help pay for special training if the school wants to fund it. You could stop buying condoms for middle school kids and pay for gun training instead. We could stop giving them "free" breakfast and lunch and they could bring their lunch or parents could feed them at home like normal people do.

Cut out the entitlement programs and put the money toward supporting the basic principle of self-preservation.

 

[shortwave]

For those seemingly against teachers carrying your invited to stop by any school(especially many inner-city schools) and talk to principles about the amount of weapons confiscated every year. I know I was amazed when an elementary school principal showed me two big boxes full of knives and shanks confiscated in less than a year. The story of her just getting back to work cause she layed in a hospital with her jaws wired, caused by beating she took by gang members earlier in year while on playground at recess, wasn`t exactly pleasant. I posted full story on another thread some time ago.

 

[plinky]

Who cares about cost? You are a riot! Cost is a significant factor in every community and it is a huge reality issue.

Glad to have provided some humor, I think that's one of the greatest gifts someone can give. Seriously though, a nearby school within the last two years installed astro turf, new tennis courts and new parking areas to name a few. Could that money be put to better use if hightened security was an issue for them? Cost is always a factor it seems until it comes to something you really want.

I'll take a few committed teachers any day over the alternative of ... nothing!

Instead of saying there is no other way, how about starting a conversation about what else can be done. Is necessity not the mother of invention.

For those that don't think it's a good idea... As a teacher me and my wife are so completely VULNERABLE it's not even funny! ( See My Previous Post)
***What other jobs or industries are "known" for the same amount of FATAL shootings as education???*** (gas station clerks excluded) ---My point exactly

Are we just going to wait for more bodies or try and do something about it?

Who is making you stay?

Plinky and S832, I can't even begin to sort through all of your posts, because honestly, without being rude, your logic just makes no good sense to me. That said, let me just ask you one simple question.

Just because it makes no sense to you does'nt mean sense is absent. Maybe it's time to think outside the box. I'm not saying my way or idea is the correct thing to do but is allowing teachers to carry the only other way? And that is no simple question and certainly has no simple answer but I do think it warrants alot of soul searching as to what is best.

What gives you the right, in your self important arrogance and blind panic to deny me or my kids even the slightest chance to fight for their lives?

No one has given me the right, I am just trying to offer my point of view. Kind of what a forum is for isn't it. And if you knew me at all you would know that arrogance and blind panic just don't apply. As far as a chance to fight for your life it amazes me how willing you seem to be to let a situation escalate to that point. How about this idea, maybe armed guards could be stationed at every access point. I know this idea veers away from my original idea but it certainley keeps the fight away from the kids and allows time for reinforcements.

Sincerely, Jim

 

[Derius_T]

plinky wrote:

No one has given me the right, I am just trying to offer my point of view. Kind of what a forum is for isn't it. And if you knew me at all you would know that arrogance and blind panic just don't apply.

I don't know you true, but I know the argument you are using. Its the same one anti-gunners use all day long. The oh no, isn't there another way, what about the poor chiiiildren...we can't have evil guns around the chiiiildren, argument. The thought of guns period send these idiots into a blind, unreasoning, fear-driven panic, and they ACT on that panic. When they act on that panic, guns are taken away from responsible people, that could maybe save a life. At the same time, it does nothing to limit the access criminals have to guns. It just makes damn right sure that the lawful don't have them. And they are just doing it for our own good, and the good of the poor children don't you know.....

As far as a chance to fight for your life it amazes me how willing you seem to be to let a situation escalate to that point.

When those evil, murderous scumbags walked into a school and started killing kids, it was already to that point, instantly. No going back, or turning things around now, not until that sick freak was dead. Unfortunately, in almost all the school shooting cases, they either got tired of killing and offed themselves, or the police finally got there and did it. You want your kid to be hiding under a desk waiting to die until the cops show up and take the guy out? You willing to take that risk?

How about this idea, maybe armed guards could be stationed at every access point. I know this idea veers away from my original idea but it certainley keeps the fight away from the kids and allows time for reinforcements.

Sure, that would be great if the schools could afford them. So where does the money come from? Who verifies these guards training? Who instructs them? If you don't know, then its just more unknowns walking the halls with guns right?

Whats wrong with private citizens, most of who probably grew up around guns, and are familiar with them, taking an active role in protecting the kids? I don't know about you, but where I come from most of the people who are gun friendly that I know have handled all different types of guns, in many different situations, since they were small children. Most of these types are WAY more proficient and safe with a firearm than your average officer whos only experience with a gun is their duty weapon. and most, in my experience, are better shots too.

In fact, a good friend of mine handles the licenses for carry around here. He was also a swat instructor and a former seal. I have had the extreme misfortune of watching several batches of local leos do their mandatory firearms instruction. SCAREY. VERY SCAREY. Alot of them never touch their service weapon, or any other, EXCEPT for the manual training. Not the most gun-saavy bunch.

The reason I say this is that just because someone is a cop or security guard, doesn't necessarily mean they are safer or more proficient than your average schoolteacher who opts to carry.

And no offense of any kind to our brave souls in blue. Just relating some things personally experienced.

 

[Al Norris]

Armed Guards at every access point? Been There, Done That.

Circa 1966, Long Beach, CA. Polytechnic High School. Ten foot chain link fences with bobwire at the top. Armed police at every break in the fence and at every entrance or egress point within the buildings. Kids were frisked at any and every opportunity. Closed campus. Once in, you stayed in. If you didn't make it in before the final bell, you were refused entry. No one allowed in the halls after the bell.

Didn't stop the gang violence and racial tensions that this was instituted to prevent. Didn't prevent knives and guns from coming on campus.

It didn't promote a positive learning atmosphere. It did promote the general paranoia, already in motion. It didn't stop the shootings or knifings. It didn't stop the targets or innocents from being maimed or killed.

Plinky, it's been tried. It failed. Got any more ideas? Like something that hasn't been tried (and failed)...

The one idea, allowing armed teachers, hasn't to my knowledge, ever been tried.

 

[GPossenti]

Everything else has been tried from kids not being allowed to carry backpacks, to ID cards, to no lockers, to metal detectors, to fences, to gun-free zones. Nothing has worked.

Nearly everything fails when the government tries to control it instead of letting the public take care of it.

 

[Bitmap]

Once it becomes apparent that the halls are not running red with student blood from CCW holders in the halls we can work on parents.

Seems to me there is ample evidence out there already that school shootings are not performed by people with carry permits.

I understand what you are saying about one step at a time but it will be a long time before parents or college students are allowed to carry in schools in Texas.

 

[Yellowfin]

^ if it's going to take a long time then we had better get started. If we win this one we can work on kicking the anti self defense, anti gun mentality out of schools and thereby out of society forever- we should settle for no less.