Texas neighborhood stands up to Black Panthers (video)

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MR MASSachusetts: you have a castle bill in your state.yes it applies only to you home,but it does give you the right to use force including deadly to eject some one.To the rest of posters: In a confrontation such as this you dont have hours to make up your mind.you go into it ready or you come out of it dead.I have had that experiance but it stopped short before it came fully to fruit. :)
 
The two burglars were not wayward youts, misguided disenfranchised minorities trying to get out from under The Man's thumb.

These guys were career criminals who would have killed Mr. Horn or anyone else who ever tried to get in their way. This must go down as a good shoot.

For all of you non-Texicans, the DPS is the Texas State Police.

DPS was watching burglars shot by Horn

Even before their deaths prompted a series of heated debates about the use of deadly force, detectives at the Department of Public Safety had their eye on Diego Ortiz and Miguel Dejesus.

The two were shot and killed by Joe Horn, a Pasadena man who thought they were burglarizing his neighbor’s home last month.

According to a DPS memo obtained by 11 News, the department was investigating the use of Puerto Rican birth certificates by Colombians seeking to obtain Texas driver’s licenses.

Both Ortiz and Dejesus had applied for licenses. Dejesus listed his country of origin as Puerto Rico, but both men were Colombian.

Apparently, the DPS is investigating hundreds of immigrants who may have used illegal papers to get Texas licenses.

But that’s not all.

A much wider probe has been launched into an organized syndicate of Colombians who are engaged in illegal weapons sales and home break-ins – just like the one Ortiz and Dejesus were involved in last month in Pasadena.

That day, Joe Horn and a shotgun stood in the way of the suspected thieves, but in many instances the suspects have gotten away.

The ATF, ICE and DPS have reportedly formed a task force to bring the crime wave to an end.

The burglars are said to be very effective at what they do, conducting extensive surveillance on their targets before striking. Some of the suspects are extremely violent.

The investigations have already led to several arrests.
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http://www.khou.com/news/local/stories/khou071204_tnt_pasadenaburglars.69d89aae.html
 
MR MASSachusetts: you have a castle bill in your state.yes it applies only to you home,but it does give you the right to use force including deadly to eject some one.
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Not to get off the subject. That is incorrect, the Massachusetts Castle law only covers the right to use force to meet force in situation such as armed person who is physically threatening a homeowner with violence. It does not allow a homeowner to use force to protect property or outside the residence.

On the police recording you can clearly hear him tell the criminals right before he shoots them that they where "Dead". He did not tell them to stop, or put down the goods. He just said they are dead then shot them. These people where criminals, but it still does not give a person the right to just shoot them without cause.
 
To Crosshair

I am a black man, and damn you are right. I grew up on rap music and now I hate it. But Thums up to Mr Horn. I hope he comes out on top. If not I am sure he can live with that. A lot of people go to jail for something they hate they did, Mr horn can say he did what any should do. If someone is taking up money on his behalf for a lawyer fees or something. I will do what I can.
 
Buzzcook, have you taken the time to read the relevant Texas law?

What if I told you that Texas law plainly says that you can use deadly force to protect burglars from getting away with your neighbors possessions?
 
On the police recording you can clearly hear him tell the criminals right before he shoots them that they where "Dead". He did not tell them to stop, or put down the goods. He just said they are dead then shot them.
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Blatantly incorrect. On the tape is it clear that he said "move and youre dead".

They obviously moved.
 
I'd say Horn is an idiot that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.

Running out on the porch and taking pot shots at punks is not self defense. It is the deliberate unwarranted use of deadly force.
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Umm, deadly force in defense of property is legal. You may disagree with it on a moral level, but legally there isn't anything wrong with it.
 
It is TEXAS law that applies. Under TEXAS law, based on what is known up to now, it's a good shoot. (Thanks to Thumper for posting the actual Texas law on the subject.)

Texas law does not side with criminals to the degree that the law in other states does.

The two blond Fox News lawyerettes who were analyzing this were clearly speaking without actually having read the relevant Texas statutes, and were relying on their legal training in other states.

As for the racial aspect . . . does anyone here seriously believe that if the shooter went out and saw a couple of blond, blue-eyed white guys robbing the home he would simply have turned around and gone back inside? :rolleyes:
 
Blatantly incorrect. On the tape is it clear that he said "move and youre dead".
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Sorry that is incorrect. At least according the transcript from the Police recording of his 911 call. If you read their transcript he clearly states "Your Dead". He does not say anything else.

"Boom! You're dead!" he shouts. A loud bang is heard, then a shotgun being cocked and fired again, and then again.
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Quote from transcripts.

Here again is a link to the transcript.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/17/national/main3517564.shtml?source=mostpop_story


As for the racial aspect . . . does anyone here seriously believe that if the shooter went out and saw a couple of blond, blue-eyed white guys robbing the home he would simply have turned around and gone back inside?
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Well he might have not used deadly force on them if they where blond and blue eyed. We will never know.
In the audio tape he did sound a bit eager to intervene. Maybe he was frightened enough to act but most frightened people would not try to intentionally aggravate the situation. From the is voice in the tape it sounds like he really wanted to stop these people with full prejudice. He went out of the safety of his home, and without warning, open fired. The two might not have even seen him. To him they where not humans, but animals that had to be exterminated. That is very troubling. It is up to the grand jury to see if there is enough evidence to prosecute him under Texas law. Until then it is all talk.
 
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ZeroJunk said:
I like motorcycles just fine, but question the intellect of somebody goosing the throttle as some kind of statement.
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One of the stunts that libeals use in my area is shouting down the free speech a rival might use. For all of their banter, they are the most racist and fascist people I have met. You either agree with them or your "hate speech" is obliterated with bull-horns.

Biker engines are simply pay-back. Why should leftists have all of the fun?

When the Westboro Baptist Church first started their harrassment I suppose they felt quite smug. When the Patriot Guard shows up, with enough straight pipes to rattle your dentures, they just seem like any other lunatic fringe group.

And so it is with Panthers. Big talk. Not really very dangerous in reality. It was good to see them sweat and leave.

My guess is that there is some liberal group in my area cursing such tactics because "blacks didn't have the chance to speak."

We just took that move right out of their playbook.
 
Sorry that is incorrect. At least according the transcript from the Police recording of his 911 call. If you read their transcript he clearly states "Your Dead". He does not say anything else.
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I could care less what the transcripts say. I heard the tape 3 times tonight and he clearly says, "move you're dead."

CBS got it wrong. Here's a transcript that has it right.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1926577/posts

And another one.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...12/05/texas-shooting-joe-horn-s-911-call.aspx


Use common sense. When someone goes running out with a shotgun to confront a couple of felons, are they going to shout "boom you're dead" or "move you're dead". The first just doesn't make any sense. I don't know if CBS made a mistake or is trying to make Horn look bad, but given their past "liberties" I wouldn't put it past them.

Either way, Horn didn't walk out and start blasting as you say. He gave them an ultimatium, and at least one of the men started walking towards him. I don't know about you but if someone starts walking towards me when 1) I'm holding a 12 gauge 2) I have the drop on them and 3) I told them not to move, its game over.
 
I did listen to the tape five time the past two days and I swear he only says "Your dead". Well we will see what happens in the grand jury on who they believe. I would like to see the transcripts from a neutral source like the Police. There is no way to say which is correct. There does seems to be a lot of misinformation out on the net on this case from pro and antis sides.
 
I did listen to the tape five time the past two days and I swear he only says "Your dead". Well we will see what happens in the grand jury on who they believe. I would like to see the transcripts from a neutral source like the Police. There is no way to say which is correct. There does seems to be a lot of misinformation out on the net on this case from pro and antis sides
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Then may I suggest you clean the wax out. Heres another to add to your list.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711/19/acd.01.html

CNN is about as anti gun as you can get and they got it right. The physical evidence supports this as well. One of the perps was shot in the chest in Horns yard. When Horn was on the phone they were on the neighbors property. That means between the time Horn got off the phone and the time the perp was shot, he made his way onto Horns property.

Again I defer to the rule about what to do to people who are in the process of a felony who brazenly walk up to folks holding shotguns.
 
Thumper, to quote Dickens and paraphrase Shakespeare.

"The Law is an ass."
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Perhaps, but ass or not, you are calling on him to be "prosecuted to the fullest extent."

The law obviously has more than a little bearing on what is or is not considered "deliberate unwanted use of deadly force."

You can disagree with the morality of the law and you can work from Wa. state to change it if you like.
 
While I doubt I would have taken the action Horn did I will not fault him, I have zero tolerance for thieves,drug dealers, murders and people who abuse children. With over 300 million people now in America and larger numbers who care nothing about Law or your life and property we must realize the police cannot always take care of the public and their property.

Personally if serving on a jury I will always take the word of a citizen without a criminal background over that of a known criminal.
 
wingman said:
Personally if serving on a jury I will always take the word of a citizen without a criminal background over that of a known criminal.
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This is exactly the problem I see in a "jury of my peers" and the events depicted in the video.

According to you beliefs, and if you sat on my jury, I'm pretty much toast for using self defense due to my past. Our judicial system recognizes innocence until one is proven guilty. The state must prove its case or I walk. Your attitude implies, "Hold the phone, that biker ain't walking anywhere..."

Frankly, it is the mantra of every liberal I know in my city. They rant, unless you mindlessly join us, you're a hate criminal.

There's a world of difference between one's beliefs and past life and dirt-clod backing out of a crime scene. Worse yet is the vermin who nibble around the edges trying to make political hay.

I'm surprised that Al Sharpton wasn't leading the Panthers with his own film crew and broadcasting truck at-the-ready, to edit out snippets he didn't like.

We seem to be quibbling over how to parse words said in the heat of the moment. Yikes, that's the absolute worst time to measure the value of a man. We all have heard the most incredible things during an adrenaline rush, even from our wives.

Let's get back to the core issue. Thieves exited a crime scene, and ran into a concerned citizen with the enumerated rights of The Second.

Exactly how some folks feel he lost those rights simply by stepping off of his property befuddles me.
 
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