Texas neighborhood stands up to Black Panthers (video)

[STAGE 2]

Then how is it a gray area shoot

Because its unknown what happened between the time he got off the phone and the time he shot them. If he just walked up and smoked them that doesn't look good. If he gave them a warning and they ignored it or made a threatening move then it changes things.

 

[Thumper]

It should be an open in shut case against him. Now I did hear some legal analysts on Fox News report that their is no right to defend another person property in Texas, only your own.

Neato, but they (and you) are spectacularly wrong.

§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

The "or" is important because it means that (1) is a sufficient defense to prosecution.

http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm

 

[Benzene]

"Give them a warning!!!!!!!!!!"

...like "Hey doods, don't do that, it's not nice!" I just heard from a pal in that area that FOUR blacks {young budding criminals} just shot and killed another black guy who was a "peace officer"! in another attempted robbery!!! in that same area of Texas. Wait a minute, that would make them not just "budding criminals", would it? What would have happened if Joe or a look-alike of Joe had been around????

I restate my position against violence of any kind and the FACT that those who seek to plant misery in the lives of others MUST be prepared to face ALL consequences - yes, including PERMANENTLY being put out of business.

The "pundits" and pontifs can say what they wish.

 

[The Tourist]

I could have done without the motorcycle.

Best use of loud pipes on a Harley, ever.

Despite your feelings on motorcycles, wasn't it great to see their own usual tactics turned against them?

During the early 1970's they used to land in Madison, Wisconsin, strut around carrying firearms (or implying they did) and try to scare innocent little white suburban children into supporting their actions.

So now, they try it again. I'm sure they felt that PC and white guilt was going to get them a microphone, a podium and a sound byte and they could swagger brazenly onto the front page.

The problem is no one buys these tactics at face value anymore. If you watch some of them mutter to each other, you see concern among themselves and a very real sense that this isn't going to work.

The Panthers of Old also didn't mind a bit of property damage as long as it was someone else's and it fit into their scheme.

I think the bikers should have rocked their mommy van as it was pulling out. You know, just for old time's sake.

 

[Sigma 40 Blaster]

Sorry but hearing all those "patriots" screaming USA, USA, USA...get a job...and hearing more than one individual saying "get out of here boy" did nothing to sway me from thinking Horn was a scared old Texas redneck, his "supporters" in this video seem to be pretty like minded. I live in East Texas and shoot and BS with a few old guys that fit this bill...we've had some pretty good talks about this situation.

At the same time not sure why the BP were even on the scene. I suppose one of our members was right in saying they probably figured they could get a quick sound byte.

As for Rev. Jackson or Sharpton...the guys weren't black and this case hasn't garnered enough national attention to draw these media whores out yet...

Finally, anyone who makes this case a race thing is probably wrong. I think old Joe would've shot down a couple of mullet wearing country boys in cold blood just like he did these guys.

 

[RangerHAAF]

Those burglars got what was coming to them. If they don't want to get shot they should stay out of unknown neighborhoods and just burglarize those that tolerate their criminality; because I've news for them. A lot of people within certain communities don't tolerate criminals and their antics like big cities do.

Big news shootings like this one are great advertisements to keep violent crooks within their own "hoods".

 

[The Tourist]

And let's face it, when you hear a bump in the night and you get up to investigate it, you don't know the race of the criminal.

Even if it was a daylight raid, I think it would be ludicrous for the Panthers to believe that blacks shouldn't be shot because of PC.

But let's be clear here about Panthers and their view of events in politics.

The 'real' Panthers were a group with a narrow agenda and a communal span of possibly 18 months. They were simply another voice in the crowd during the protest years akin to the C.O.R.E. and the SDS.

They never had many members, in fact, I doubt the authenticity of many I met in Madison. The 'uniform' was a black leather car-coat and a black or dark blue beret.

The BSU boycott in Madison lasted only a few weeks and I never saw a Panther again.

In reality, the 'real' Panthers died in a gunfight with police, and some of the surviving members fled to Europe, primarily France.

They are no one to fear, they are racist themselves, and you've now seen proof how fast they turn-tail and run. My guess is that the people you saw weren't even born until after the 1960's.

 

[zbordas]

The truth is that the US and Canada is far more tolerant with different races than any other country in the world. What happened in Pasadena has nothing to do with race.

 

[The Tourist]

I agree.

However, I don't think that should influence you true and rational ideas and standards.

I believe a Muslim should enjoy a free and peaceful worship of his god.

This same guy starts to become a public nuisance and a threat to safety and I'll put the first slug in him myself.

But that's two separate and distinct issues!

I would not be responding to his ethnicity or his spirituality, but to his hostile actions. Big difference!

The problem here is playing the race card to advance your own agenda. The Panthers as a popular and publicized entity are yesterdday's news. This was a chance for media hype and a sound byte. I doubt if they knew the felons, at all.

 

[MDman]

if this is the case I think it is where the guy sits in his house with his shot gun

then he deserves to go to prision for life for murder.


anyone have the 911 call?

 

[saltydog452]

I like the idea of the Panthers trying to take back their neighborhoods and culture from the likes of the street gangs.

However this smacks of political (read 'power') goals rather than pride in your culture.

The reality is that dang near everything that involves mixed races becomes racial whether it was intended, or not.

If you bump into a guy coming out of a 7-11, there is an 'oops' or an 'excuse me' and, most likely that'll be the end of it.

Not so anymore, especially if either of the two 'bumpers' have an audience.

Bluntly, I think that we have, for whatever reasons, become more racially polarized now than we were in the 50s.

Thoise who can help to contain the polarization seem intent on stiring the pot to gain more political, (again, read 'power') support in their respective consticuency.

salty

(gingerly trying to step down from his soap box.)

 

[MDman]

i think this is the call http://www.ebaumsworld.com/audio/play/51381

 

[Garand Illusion]

Like I've said on other posts ... let's not fry Mr. Horn because he used some macho talk while working up courage to go out and confront the two massive men violating his neighbor's house and his neighborhood. I'm not sure exactly what happened, but based on the "best case" scenario:

• Mr. Horn observed men breaking into his neighbor's house.
• He called 911 and waited for police to arrive.
• After 6 minutes he believed the men to be about to escape, and he decided to confront them.
• He confronted them, told them not to move, and they charged him.
• He fired at the charging men, he being 61 years old and his attackers being half his age and twice his size.

I've heard various views of the above, I don't know which is true. On Hannity and Colmes last night the Black Panther guy claimed that the two men were shot in the back while running away, one twice.

If it is true that he clearly shot them in the back, then I'm afraid he needs to be prosecuted. There were certainly mitigating circumstances, and he will probably get off in a Jury trial depending on how it's presented, but while I think it's GREAT that he took action to protect his neighborhood, if the guys refused his order and took off running he should have just watched them go.

My .02.

But let's not hang Mr. Horn.

• He is NOT a cold blooded murderer (he didn't track down people to kill for no reason) he shot criminals who had invaded his neighborhood.
• It is NOT racial. I've listened to the whole tape, and he made no mention of race.
• He is NOT being "judge, jury and executioner" He confronted criminals in his neighborhood, and when (if) they charged he used deadly force to defend himself.

And while it wasn't his house ... it was still his community. We need MORE people willing to fight for their community, not less.

 

[Thumper]

If it is true that he clearly shot them in the back, then I'm afraid he needs to be prosecuted.

Prosecuted?

Have you read Texas Deadly Force laws? Specifically 9.43-Protection of Third Person's Property?

more specifically:

(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

 

[Garand Illusion]

Prosecuted?

Have you read Texas Deadly Force laws? Specifically 9.43-Protection of Third Person's Property?

I have now (thanks).

IF the worse case report is true (guys had dropped the booty, no longer had the crowbar, and were running away) is true, then it doesn't look to me like it would apply.

Prosecuting is different from convicting. I'm guessing this guy will be getting off in some manner if the DA does go forward with the case, and I can live with that. I'd rather the law always err on the side of victims/legal citizens than confirmed felons.

 

[Thumper]

Where did you hear that the neighbor's property had been dropped?

 

[BILLDAVE]

B&E might get you killed!

The criminals got what they deserved. If you rob a home you may get killed. Period. They should play that audio to every kid in highschool. Take the romance out of the "thug/criminal" culture. Plus aren't the Black Panthers mostly criminals themselves? Criminals sticking up for criminals, and some idiots believe thats okay. Gosh!
BILLDAVE

 

[Garand Illusion]

Where did you hear that the neighbor's property had been dropped?

From the same guy who said Horn shot the two men in the back as they were running away.

I haven't read every possible story and don't know which version is true. If true, though, it would affect the case.

 

[Thumper]

On what did the Black Panther base his assertion that the guys dropped the goodies? How could he possibly have any credibility?

Keep in mind that I didn't see the piece. Did he address this at all?

 

[ZeroJunk]

Despite your feelings on motorcycles

I like motorcycles just fine, but question the intellect of somebody goosing the throttle as some kind of statement. Sort of like burning flags, dancing, chanting and shooting AK's in to the air.