Texas Deer Hunting - what went wrong?

Just read a story about a northern California deer hunter who has found a way to see a lot more deer. He uses a fawn in distress call and they all come runnin to save the little baby. Now theres a sporting effort. But I guess thats alright because hes not in Texas.
 
Butch,
You are the one doing all the griping and complaining.

Good shooting and be safe. Try to be happy too.
LB
 
Butch,

I'll start by saying that I've never lived in Texas. I grew up in Colorado, still live in Colorado and truly can't believe I'll live anywhere else. Still I agree with you about Texas hunting, the 'average' Texas hunter, and the poor experience that anyone hunting over bait has, and in many cases don't realize how poor it is.

Colorado to the west and east of the front range is still only marginally populated. The land is wild and rough, and opening day many areas in Colorado see only 1 hunter for every 2 or 3 square miles, though the deer population is many times that. Especially in the north east sandhills one might spend days hunting on private land (which is basically open to the public as long as you ask the landowner) and not see a single other hunter. Or a deer for that matter.

My former boss owned a several thousand acres of irrigated farmland and much, much more in grassland. He had one year while I was in college an associate up from Texas, one that wished to hunt in Colorado for a 'big mulie' but who had no experience hunting outside of a stand and over bait. I was given the opportunity to guide the associate around for a little bit of money, something that I enjoyed immensely and wish I could do for a full time job. To say that it was an experience for him to truly get out and truly 'hunt' deer for the first time would be an understatement. He couldn't believe the number of deer, and the size we seen even though we weren't glassing as he had seen in a couple hunting programs, it was late in the season, and we were moving more or less at random as far as he could tell. Still there was a method behind our movements. I'm not a 'big' deer hunter myself, but I've seen enough big mulies while out stomping around for pheasant that I know what they like, ie water close to a cornfield and most typically an alfalfa field nearby.

After three days of traipsing around he was beginning to get a little annoyed that I wouldn't let him take a shot at the 'big' deer we were seeing. Little did he know that the six and eights pointers we were seeing were a little on the small side. Day four I was scouting around a water tank for tracks and came across some really massive prints heading up into a really rough set of hills. We decided to follow them and after an hour of scouting, tracking, and humping over some impassible to vehicle sand hills we were looking on a mulie from 75 yards that had an impressive 9 point rack. After what the hunter said was the most adrenaline pumped shot he had ever made, and a beautiful hit, we had the 'pleasure' of carrying the carcass back out, all 375lbs of it. Which was more work than the entire hunt, luckily plastic tarps drag well over stand and grass.

I'm told that that hunter has refused to hunt anything over bait, including during one Canadian black bear hunt, because he had decided after that one experience that he trully wanted to experience 'fair chase' on each and every hunt.

Now determining what 'fair chase' truly is, is another question. There needs to be a line, but like most ethical lines it is not a clear cut one.

Is setting decoys and using calls to draw in game birds like doves, turkey, ducks and geese included in 'fair chase' in my mind? Yes. Conversely is groundshooting birds 'fair chase'? In the case of running pheasant (because in a given year I may never actually see a flying bird in my area) and turkey, I'd say yes.

Using scent and calls for deer and elk? Sure, since you aren't 'training' the game to come to the same place every day, at the same time, I'd say that this is in the spirit of 'fair chase'. Now hunting over bait that is spread every day at precisely 9AM or over a block of salt that you placed and you know the deer use? Gray area here. Hunting a watering hole or a bedding area? Once again gray, depending on the conditions in the area I may or may not do this.

If the only big game 'hunting' you have ever done is over bait, then you've never really hunted. A person IMHO doesn't really know what hunting is until you've tracked the animal down, slowly stalked within firing range, and taken the game. There is a sense of satisfaction that comes from knowning that 'I did this' that one doesn't get from sitting in a stand, waiting for something to walk up so you can shoot it.

YMMV
 
My opinion on it is that a trained chimp could do the hunting over bait in a stand. I prefer the traditional way of hunting from the ground, with no baiting. But if people want to hunt over bait, so be it. It's their right as long as its allow.
 
My family owns two 500 acre cattle ranches in Live Oak County in South Texas so I have hunted extensively in the above described manner. I must say that it is rather unsporting. I get in my truck, wearing jeans & a T-shirt, with my coffee, drive to about 1/4 miles away, get into one of my blinds about 75 yards away, pull out a book or my lap-top and start doing my homework as I wait for Bambi to come strolling out. When he comes out, I have an easy shot on a stationary target and they never usually make it more than a few yards after being shot. While this may not be overly sporting, it is still hunting and I see no ethical problems with it.
I believe most people's problems are with the "mall-ninjas" or "chairbrone rangers" who roll up all decked out head to toe with camo, the latest wiz bang gadets & optics and all this other unnesicary crap to sit in a blind and they think they are some hotsh*t hunters when they shoot Bambi at 50 yards with a scope rifle as he eats from a feeder. Than they usually want to boast about what a challange/accomplishment it was :rolleyes: It's not much of challenge or a much of skill required aside from being able to shoot and keep your mouth shut in the blind. As someone else said, if you dropped off a Texas hunter such as myself in Alaska, Colorado or somewhere else where real hunting skill is required we'd have little idea on how to hunt, except strolling around with a rifle hopping to see something.
 
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i have not had the chance to still hunt in colorado or montana or alaska but I would love to someday and some day I certainly will. But to even consider still hunting the Texas hill country would be impossible unless you were absolutley certain there were no other hunters around. I have the opportunity to drve 1 1/2 hours to my deer camp to be with friends and hunt in blinds over feeders.Spend one day and back to work. I guess until that lotto ticket hits I'll continue to hunt Texas style. Or better yet let's all move to Colorado!
 
You are the one doing all the griping and complaining.
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I am well aware that I am making statements that are unpopular with the people who shoot deer over bait, but I don't believe I am griping or complaining. Maybe I am though, and if I am, then so what? That doesn't change the contents of my statements one iota.

Facts are stubborn things and will remain facts regardless of who delivers them or how. I would be unahppy if someone pointed out to me that what I thought was a sporting hunt was in fact about as sporting as shooting fish in a barrel. I would resent it a whole lot more if my Father had taught me to hunt over bait and that I was following family tradition.

It would be great if we had the open country that some other states have, and it would be great if everyone could experience hunting at some point in their lives, but it won't happen here. The deer lease ninjas will continue to pour out of the cities every fall and set up feeders and shoot deer and go home feeling all pumped up that they have really had an outdoor experience. The lease owners will continue to run to the banks with wads of cash that is derived from the lease ninjas hunting captive deer trained to come to feeders.

Too bad because there are fair chase opportunities here in Texas, and all it takes to enjoy it is to understand what it is and to expend the energy to do it. Doubly too bad because fair chase hunting is a heck of a lot less expensive than leasing. Too bad because when you take a deer in fair chase, you have truly done something unique and difficult, and there is a real sense of accomplishment.

I suspect that almost everyone who has ever taken a deer over an automated feeder from a cushy stand 1/2 mile from his truck hears a deep down little voice telling them that they really didn't do much after all......
 
The lease owners will continue to run to the banks with wads of cash that is derived from the lease ninjas hunting captive deer trained to come to feeders.
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Until CWD wipes them all out and ruins the hunting for everyone.
 
I was at Half-Price books this afternoon and stopped by the hunting section. I scanned thru all of the books on Deer Hunting, and of all the varied hunting techniques explained in all of the books they had, not one explained how to hunt over a feeder. Isn't that curious.
 
i hear its legal to shoot from a vehicle in TX too
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IIRC you can as long as the engine isn't running for "game animals" (deer, dove etc). But for "non-game" animals (hogs, coyotes etc) you can hunt them from anything with anything (including Machine Guns :eek: ).
 
If you don't like the way we hunt in Texas, you are free to hunt your way as long as it is safe and legal. If you don't like living here, then be advised that the roads into Texas also lead out of Texas.
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That's a pretty sad response. Can't present a cogent argument? No problem! Just tell the guy to leave the sate because of a disagreement over hunting techniques!

:rolleyes:
 
Not all of us hunt from a blind over a feeder. Though I have hunted from a blind, I've never hunted deer over bait. I found the skill most necessary other than being able to hit a target, was patience. Yep, I brought a book. No, some might not call this "hunting" (I would call it finding, though :D ). But was it unsporting to make a one-shot kill at 125 yds with an open sighted 94 in 38-55?

Is it more of a hunt to step out of the blind late in the day, scope the open field one more time and land one at 276 yds with a Japenese service rifle? (Surely that's hunting, I wasn't in the blind anymore).

These days, I just don't have time to arrange a "hunting trip" and dedicate several days for the purpose. My "hunting" now consists of checking out my pastures in the evening on my way out to check the livestock. On two separate occasions this past season, I hit pay dirt. On the first, I was able to stop, get out of the truck, step over my fence and take one that was curious and turned to look back (Lot's wife kinda' thing) at about 150 yds. The second, I spotted a herd at quite a distance, stalked 200 yds to make a heart shot at 175 yds (come on, surely that counts as "hunting").

My point is that we all have to make accommodations to fit our circumstances. I'm talking about both physical realities and local customs of acceptability. I'll be the first to admit that I'm way more a shooter than a hunter, but hunting does provide interesting opportunities to shoot.

Can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:
 
There aren't any bright lines to this.

In the desert, a water hole is as good or better than a feeder.

Scents and calls bring in animals without "skill," too.

How many waterfowlers use decoys? How many use their own skills to make their OWN decoys? Most just buy plastic ones.

Art, as usual, covered it pretty well.

BTW, there ARE public lands in Texas-- about 1 million acres of Type I and Type II public lands.
 
On the first, I was able to stop, get out of the truck, step over my fence and take one that was curious and turned to look back (Lot's wife kinda' thing) at about 150 yds. The second, I spotted a herd at quite a distance, stalked 200 yds to make a heart shot at 175 yds (come on, surely that counts as "hunting").
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Well, maybe in Texas it is, but around here we call that "road hunting/shooting/spotting/cheating"

If anyone wants to actually hunt, come up here and we'll organize a couple pushes. I'd reccomend you bring a couple pairs of good boots, lots of layers, and your 12 gauge.
 
My point is that we all have to make accommodations to fit our circumstances.
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I agree with that. We all have to work with what we have. As pointed out though, there are public lands in Texas and if you are willing to walk/climb/wade/etc you can get away from the crowd and find good hunting of the fair chase style. I know seveal people who have shot a deer over a feeder once and will never do it again. They have found other ways to hunt.

Maybe part of the "problem" is video games. Kids grow up playing video games and it is an easy transition to sit in a blind and wait for a deer to present itself. Maybe. Maybe it is just plain laziness. People want to kill a deer and they want antlers to hang on the wall and they don't mind paying for it, they just don't want to work at it. Maybe.

I am really disgusted by the tall fencing thing on top of the feeders. With fencing the deer are turned into domestic livestock that pretty much take care of themselves. Plus it is theft of public property, in my opinion, to pen deer up and not let the public have access to them if they don't pay. I have seen where some states allowed the fencing, but the land owner had to pay the state $250 for each deer inside. That is not much money for a deer, but at least they paid for it.
 
Some people who hunt only consider those animals that can easily injure or kill the hunter to be "sporting".

Some only hunt with the most primitive weapons, such as a handcrafted long bow and wooden arrows, or even a boar spear and knife.

Some only enjoy a hunt if they can use a pointer or pack of hounds that they train and feed and exercise. (I always thought that those who state that hounds made bear hunting "too easy" should have to care for and train a pack, and see how much hard work is really avoided by using them!)

Some won't kill a turkey unless it came expressly to there call. I heard tell that they will break up a flock in easy shotgun range, eschewing to kill one then, to give them an opportunity to call one in and kill it.

I know one guy who normally won't shoot at geese until they land and he can check them over for tags or bands, since he collects them. Is this more or less sporting?

Hunting will always have those who look to make it easier and more effective, and those who make it harder and more challenging. Neither way inhernetly kills off the fun and enjoyment.

The hard feelings come only when people start to grade results and/or efforts put forth to get those results. Then the guy who shot a big 4x4 over a feeder on private land feels superior to the guy with a forkhorn shot while still hunting on private land, and this guy holds the feeder hunter as a butcher in blaze orange because he didn't "earn" his deer, he bought it.

In each case, they are hunting for an imaginary audience, instead of themselves. Someone will always get a bigger deer or have a harder hunt, (or in the case of legendary bowhunter Chuck Adams, both), so by voluntarily ranking yourself above others, you also put yourself below others, instead of treating each hunt as a never to be duplicated challenge that you took.
 
Artsmom: Intelligent and well reasoned response. I differ with you though where you take the reasoning fork in the road that the differences come when comparing results between a large buck taken over bait vs a small buck taken by fair chase.

I don't believe it is about comparisons. I think the difference comes from people who do understand sportsmanship observing the acts of people who do not understand sportsmanship.

I agree that there are all kinds of lines that can be drawn as to what is and what isn't sporting, for each and every game animal, in each and every environment. Tree stands are anathema to some while necessary to others, depending on terrain, for instance. The reason that I don't believe that hunting over a mechanical feeder is sporting inside land that is deer fenced is because the hunter has changed the deers habitat and habits to improve his success ratio, and to suit his inherent laziness.

Deer should not be "trained" to come to a specific spot at a specific time so that they can be "conveniently" shot. That is not hunting by any definition that I can think of. That is behavior modification of the deer. That is training an animal to do what you want, where you want it and when you want it.

I have to believe that reasonable people can see that it is unsporting and unethical to train wild deer to be easily shot, and then to shoot them. I have to believe that the people who do so, don't do it out of some kind of maliciousness, but more out of some sort of an unthinking mass herd instinct that everyone else does it so it must be ok for me to do it too, plus because it is real easy and most people are lazy by nature - so it all flows together. It is what they have always seen and done and it is easy and everyone else who does it approves of it and congratulates them for doing it when they do it too, so it must be "right."

I suspect that most Texans have absolutely no idea that the majority of America's hunters would be shocked to see how the deer are typically hunted down here in Texas. Or maybe they do realize it and it is a secret shame that they try to keep buried in their subconcious, after all I don't ever recall seeing a hunting show on TV where the hunters were hunting over a mechanical feeder. I can't recall ever seeing an article in Field and Stream or Outdoor Life on how to hunt over a mechanical feeder either; although they may have and I missed it.

I have to believe that reasonable people will not understand how it can be legal to fence in deer, that are public property, and then sell them to the highest bidder and keep the profits either.
 
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