Terrible NRA CCW Course

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The NRA can and should most certainly be held responsible for what their instructors say, while instructing an NRA-approved course. Now, what may have happened is a local course was offered and the status of the instructors being NRA-certified was touted in advertising for the class. That doesn't mean the class was an approved curriculum by the NRA. I don't have a crystal ball, 'just a thought on how this could happen.

You are definitely correct about the first part... and may be right about the second. Except that I did get my certificate and it says: The National Rifle Association of America - awards this certificate to (my name LOL) as evidence of having attended an NRA Personal Protection Course... it bears the seal of the NRA and signature of the secretary (at the time the certificate was printed, anyway).

I'd say that makes them a bit responsible for my experience: an NRA certified instructor teaching an NRA course.

Unless, of course, it's Al Gore's fault.

I do not have an axe to grind with the NRA... but I do think any organization needs to decide what business they are in and do it well. I make no statements about what the NRA accomplishes (or doesn't) politically, but I do say that if they are going to certify instructors and courses, they accept the obligation to provide at least a modicum of quality control. A failure to do that weakens the credibility of the organization in general.

What would this thread look like if the NRA manufactured or sold guns that didn't work?
 
Yeah, I had heard of the GOA before. I was just trying to make a point. Sorry for removing your speech, Bud.

I would hate to be speechless, I run my mouth all the time :)
 
Boondoggie,

v8fbird - you still haven't answered the question.
Quote:
v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Quote:
Why? Did you fail to archive an 80% pass in the written portion? or did you fail to qualify in the practical portion? This would be the only two reasons I am aware of that would restrict you from receiving your certificate.
Maybe the missing portion to the rest of this story.

No, I didn’t fail. There were no tests; you can’t fail. UNLESS, I would imagine, you piss off the instructors. That’s why I didn’t try that.

skipjack,

So...the NRA is too much in favor of gun control, but Al Gore isn't? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

I said that I can’t imagine things being any worse than under Bush. That does not mean I support Al Gore. Neither does the fact that I don’t like the NRA mean that I like Al Gore. Try thinking a LITTLE outside the box for a minute, the box being your misconception that people necessarily are Republicans or Democrats. I am a Libertarian. I don’t like Bush; I don’t like Gore; I don’t like the NRA. That is far from talking out of both sides of my mouth.

I think, for whatever reason, you just have an ax to grind with the NRA.
That is your prerogative, but it sounds illogical. I am and have been a member for more years than I care to remember. I don't always agree with
them on every issue...I don't agree with anyone on every issue.

Which of my original 9 points did you have a problem with? Why do legitimate problems demonstrate that I have an “axe to grind”? Simply, I DISAGREE with the NRA enough that I won’t be a member. I fail to see how that demonstrates a problem in my logic.

It would appear that YOU have an axe to grind with ME for not supporting the NRA.

And one suggestion...stop being HOSTILE to people and they'll be much more likely to respond to you.

Bud Helms,

What I meant is that you can’t pass judgement against an organization because of something one of its employees taught me to do. But you’re right, NRA is responsible for the course, especially since it wasn’t just NRA-approved, it was an NRA course, with NRA instructors held at the NRA headquarters.


skipjack,

I am a little confused...woodswally and v8, are you the same person?

?????????????
 
"Maybe you fellows should have taken GOA's instructional course."

So far as I know, GOA does not offer any instructional courses. If they do, I'd be thrilled to know about them and I wonder why I've never heard about them from Larry. :)

GOA will send you to Front Sight in Nevada, though, for a Life Membership donation.
 
#9 Reasoning

Actually #9 is exactly the way you should do it unless you're going to put in a lot of practice hitting the slide release. If you're ever in a stressful situation you lose your "fine motor skills" (hitting that little slide release with your thumb) and are left with only "gross motor skills" (racking the slide with your hand/fist). Watch any IDPA or IPSC match with newer shooters and see how much trouble they have with a reload if they're trying to hit the slide release, then imagine real pressure like being fired at instead of just being timed and you'll see the value of the rack the slide method.
 
v8fbird - No, I didn’t fail. There were no tests; you can’t fail. UNLESS, I would imagine, you piss off the instructors. That’s why I didn’t try that.
Click to expand...

I am sorry, I must have miss-understood you.

v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Click to expand...

Would you care to elaborate? or is this something else you would rather not discuss here on the thread?

There most certainly is a test, and yes you CAN fail. The written portion requires an 80% or higher as a passing grade. There is also the practical portion, both of which MUST be met in order to receive your certificate.

P%^& off the instructors has got nothing to do with passing or a failing, being unsafe or otherwise irresponsible will get you thrown out of a class every time.

Personal feelings about the NRA or any other orginazation aside for the time being, what DID really happen in the class that promted you to post this thread?
 
There most certainly is a test, and yes you CAN fail. The written portion requires an 80% or higher as a passing grade. There is also the practical portion, both of which MUST be met in order to receive your certificate.
Click to expand...

I am not certain which course he attended, however, that really doesn't matter.

There is no test for the NRA's (3.5 hour +) FIRST Steps Pistol class.

There is a written test at the end of the NRA's (10 hour) Basic Pistol course, but there is no pass/fail condition associated with it. It is nothing more than a tool for the instructors (and students) to determine how much learning took place.

Randy
 
"There most certainly is a test, and yes you CAN fail. The written portion requires an 80% or higher as a passing grade. There is also the practical portion, both of which MUST be met in order to receive your certificate.

P%^& off the instructors has got nothing to do with passing or a failing, being unsafe or otherwise irresponsible will get you thrown out of a class every time."


Where do you live? Are you assuming that every state has the same requirements for CCW? Again, THERE WAS NO WRITTEN TEST. THERE WAS NO PRACTICAL TEST.

We sat in a classroom and listened. Then we went to the range and we shot. If there was a practical test I didn't hear a word about it and I must have passed it.

You honestly think that the instructors couldn't have kept me from getting my certificate? You think I should have started an argument with them in front of the class?
 
Last night I attended the Personal Protection Institute's Safe Start class, our instructor turned out to be the founder, Tom Crawford. He was very articulate in his explanations and had a broad knowledge of other states' policies. If you have the opportunity to come to Richmond (Ashland, actually) I highly recommend PPI for your CHL class. I met another of his instructors there, and it seems they are all very well trained and professional.
He only mentioned his recommendation against open carry near the end of his lecture because of the two main disadvantages 1) you look like you are trying to kick up some **** and 2) you lose the tactical advantage of an attacker knowing you are armed. He never said "Don't do it," just that he recommended against it.
I was hypersensitive to the shortcomings v8fbird mentioned about his class and noticed none of them in mine.
 
"Actually #9 is exactly the way you should do it unless you're going to put in a lot of practice hitting the slide release. If you're ever in a stressful situation you lose your "fine motor skills" (hitting that little slide release with your thumb) and are left with only "gross motor skills" (racking the slide with your hand/fist). Watch any IDPA or IPSC match with newer shooters and see how much trouble they have with a reload if they're trying to hit the slide release, then imagine real pressure like being fired at instead of just being timed and you'll see the value of the rack the slide method."



Yes, that's exactly the reasoning they gave, and it makes perfect sense. That's why I didn't list it under my "problems," just under things I "didn't like." They told us that's just the way it's done -- the only way it's done. They didn't say "for beginners we recommend" or "unless you practice this an awful lot, we recommend." And they told me repeatedly I was doing it "wrong."

I would imagine if you were proficient at both methods that you would find the slide release button much quicker for reloading. There are pluses and minuses to each.
 
"For the CCW permit or the NRA Class? I'm confused
Did you pass the course or didn't you?"


Why is this so VERY VERY hard to understand??

I posted:

"No, I didn’t fail. There were no tests; you can’t fail. UNLESS, I would imagine, you piss off the instructors. That’s why I didn’t try that."

There are no tests to pass the course. There are no tests to obtain a permit. You have to show up and stay to get your certificate. You have to fill out your application correctly to get your permit.

There were no tests.

I did not have to pass the course.

I completed the course.

I have my certificate.
 
"Try thinking a LITTLE outside the box for a minute, the box being your misconception that people necessarily are Republicans or Democrats. I am a Libertarian."

Wow, you garnered all that from my suggestion that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth? You are amazingly talented at reading minds!

In the real world, there were two possible outcomes to the 2000 election.
How many electoral votes did the libertarian party carry? One candidate was and is clearly anti-gun. Interpret as you see fit.

I personally don't care whether you support or join the NRA...I do have a problem with your bitching about a course that you made no objections to at the time of the course, nor have you indicated that you have apprised NRA of the perceived shortcomings. Had you the temerity to point out all these misdeeds to the instructors or NRA HQ, and still remain unsatisfied, then you would have a point.

"So far as I know, GOA does not offer any instructional courses"

Thanks for making the point that GOA and JPFO do not offer education and training programs. They are political animals...albeit much smaller than the NRA. That doesn't diminish their value, but it does put them in a seperate category.
 
You'd think v8firebird had gone out and burned a flag, judging from the unseemly attacks that keep being leveled at him.
 
"Quote:
v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Ok, I guess now I am really confussed "


If I had started arguing with them about things, they would have gotten upset. They might have asked me to leave for causing problems. IF THAT HAD HAPPENED, I would have been out my $100 and would not have received my certificate. That is why I kept my mouth shut.

Boondoggie, hopefully this brings us towards closure with your confusion over my plethora of posts which I admit probably are confusing. ;)

"I do have a problem with your bitching about a course that you made no objections to at the time of the course,"

Why? Don't read the thread anymore. Most everyone else seems to think there is something to be gained from reading the thread.

"You'd think v8firebird had gone out and burned a flag, judging from the unseemly attacks that keep being leveled at him."

If I'd actually burned a flag, they'd probably defend it as my right. But criticizing then NRA? That's treasonous! :barf:
 
"v8fbird - have you contacted the NRA training department regarding your experience in the class?
Randy"

No, I haven't. I may or may not write an anonymous letter. These guys WERE the NRA training department. These guys are some of the NRA's range instructors. These are some of the people that are probably THERE every single time I go to the range. I'd prefer to not have my name remembered and associated with "the guy who had problems with what we taught."

Not to mention the fact that I don't have the time to write every letter and make every call that I would like to.
 
Not to mention the fact that I don't have the time to write every letter and make every call that I would like to.
Click to expand...
You could have written them several letters in the time you've taken with this thread.:rolleyes:
 
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