Terrible NRA CCW Course

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yikes!

The NRA needs to be informed about this doofus.

As a NRA certified instructor myself, all I can do is wonder where he completed his training. The guys that run the instructor course at Camp Perry every year would not put up with this kind of nonsense.

Please let a friendly NRA person know about this horrendous sham! If they don't know about it, they can't fix it and TRUST ME... they will want to fix this.

Where did you get the idea that the NRA is pro-gun control?
If your definition of gun control is: "holding securely onto your guns untill someone kills you and takes them from you cold, dead hands", then you are right. Otherwise, no dice...

Drop an e-mail to them about this guy for the sake of the rest of us, if not for the NRA. Please... I'm begging you. This must be set right.
 
Once again...

you dont need to worry about everyone else. Take care of yourself. If the instructor doesn't know any better then that is his own fault. And to your first comment, yes it does say "shall not be infringed" in the bill of rights. However, that is not how things are today. We should fight for them to be that way again but right now there are laws against that and if you break them then you are just as much a criminal as the guy down the street robbing the local 7/11! You did nothing but prove all of my points in your post so I am glad you are starting to understand.
 
"First of all, I am dying to know how NRA is pro gun control."

I said I didn't want to start this debate. Start with the preconception that ALL gun control is immoral and unconstitutional. Then go start reading NRA material; it will become clear that while they fight for some things, they quite easily give in to most gun laws on the books today.
Click to expand...

Very true, V8fbird. I have gently tried to explain this to people from time to time. The tragic thing is that, although the NRA leaves something to be desired in terms of absolute regard for the RTKBA (demonstrated by their support of much existing unconstitutional legislation), they are the best bet we have to hold onto some semblance of our rights. Therefore, they have my cautious support.

In the moral sewer we live in today, those who will stand up for right no matter what do not have a chance. Though I respect and admire such people, my vote is cast on the side of tact and political savoir, which the NRA exercises in abundance to gain whatever victories it can.

It's a no-win world, isn't it?
 
My two cents...

It probably wouldn't take a lot of searching to find the thread on which I posted a very similar recent experience at the hands of a "certified NRA instructor." I actually think mine was worse because we were taught almost nothing. The emphasis of the "course" was war stories and how not to get sued if you shoot somebody. The extent of the course material provided was the instructor held up a tattered paperback book without comment. He took us shooting on a woods road with no backstop...

In my post, I pointed out that I teach a non-gun related course dealing with state licenses. My course material must be submitted to the state for approval: outlines, quizzes and tests, etc. On the night of my second class I was "audited" by a state inspector. A recent change in law means my students must now pass a state adminstered test after my course. I can assure you, lives are not at stake over the subject matter, but the quality of the teaching is taken seriously.

I suppose some would cry that the student's rights are being infringed since these are state requirements. Well, sometimes the state does things after "we" prove that we're not capable of doing them very well ourselves.

If the NRA is going to promote the value of "Certified Instructors" they should consider themselves obligated to perform some level of quality assurance. From what I have seen based on experience and their own information regarding the certification process it really is a bit of a sham. If you're willing to spend the money to take the instructor's course, they'll certify you forever, no checks, no renewals, no requirements. Sorta like a mail order minister's license or college degree! (Hmmm... if you become a mail order minister can you grant concealed carry rights any where you consider a place of worship?)

I'm certainly not "anti" NRA and am not even interested in a political debate about the organization. I am pro-education and I am pro-responsible behavior. It would appear that we have some doofus NRA Certified Instructors producing uneducated people who do not understand the responsiblities of owning and carrying their weapon. I think that's a problem for all gun owners. I can assure you that you would NOT like to be in the same room with my classmates if a situation developed that meant guns were likely to be drawn.

Instructor ignorance is not just a problem for the instructor. It's a problem for other gun owners and innocent by-standers.

Asking the students to solve the problem by reporting it is putting the cart behind the horse. The damage has been done... how many students will realize they haven't learned or have learned improperly? 50% of the class I was in were clearly there because they needed the certificate to get their concealed carry permit PERIOD. They're done learning. And they may be standing next to you in the 7-11.

Again, if the NRA wants help with "enforcement" then there needs to be a mechanisim... a place to rate instructors on the web site, a hot link or number to call to report problems... these are not really such difficult concepts or ideas. How about requiring the instructor to hand out evaluation sheets at the end of his course that are mailed directly to the NRA? (I'm required to send student evaluations in, btw.)

It's good to see some certified instructors posting here, obviously concerned about what students are getting... since the NRA has accepted the responsiblity of acting as your professional association, you might want to "lobby" them to do the job a lot better.
 
#8 - We were told to just release the slide in an empty gun and let it fall on an empty chamber. I've always heard this is hard on the gun, I always just use my hand to let the slide forward gently. Maybe I don't have to, but I have no idea why their way is MORE RIGHT and why I got yelled at about my way.

#9 - We were told not to use the slide release button when reloading, but to just rack the slide. Again, this was put forward as the ONLY right way to do it.
Click to expand...

So...
Use the slide release when the gun is empty.
But manually rack the slide when you change mags?
How pertarded.
 
Good experience at NRA CCW class

I would just like to point out - that not all instructional classes at the NRA are bad. I took my CCW course at the NRA over 2 years ago, and we had quality instructors.

There was a former FBI agent who covered the legal ground for us. And from reading what I know now, she gave us very good advice as to how to handle being approached by a LEO on a traffic stop while CC a weapon. And how to handle a shooting. (If you ever got involved in one.)

The main instructor was a good one. He taught us safety basics, everyone had their unloaded guns facing the wall. Away from each other. I was very happy with the safety demonstrated in the class.

There was a holster specialist who gave us terrific advice on which type of holsters to use while using CC. That was excellent information and I still remember a lot of it today.

Then the instructor who did my range time was a 30 year veteran and had me tighten up my groupings to 1.5 inches in under an hour.

I was very happy with the money I spent at the class. :cool:

Sorry that you did not have the same experience.
 
Probably the content/approach in the class was related more to the instructor than the NRA. Did you challenge him on any of these points? or sit there like a bump on a log getting angry? I know if he'd pointed that gun directly at me while showing it to a classmate, I would have reached up and moved it. No one points a gun at me without a reaction of some kind.
 
This Is Awful

When I got my certification it involved an intensive 4-day course with a LOT of required reading and a fairly hard test at the end (including a simulated 1 on 1 range session with a ruthless instructor from the Army Marksmanship Unit standing in as the "student").
Oh, and you had to be Expert qualified with the specified class of firearm to even sign up for each sub-section of the class (thusly, I am only certified as an instructor for smallbore rifle, high-power rifle, service rifle, and smallbore "bullseye" pistol)

My certificate says NRA on it, so I guess this is the standard course for NRA instructors?

The ? means I don't know. That guy I did my test with from the AMU would have probably physically stomped upon these geeks you guys are talking about. Hearing about this stuff is making me want to use that certificate for target-practice.

Sure, the NRA isn't perfect, but it's all we have for throwing around serious political leverage so it's in all of our best interests to get behind it.
 
"How about requiring the instructor to hand out evaluation sheets at the end of his course that are mailed directly to the NRA?"



HA. They actually handed out review sheets after we took our range time and then you HANDED them back to them and they READ them as they put them on the pile with the others. I would imagine everyone had nothing but good things to say about the course.
 
I was lucky as the course I was taking was a class from a local technical institute and was part of the scheduled cirriculum, passing included passing the written exam and the hands on firearms qualification. Imagine a college level course where you spend the class on the pistol range. :D suwheeeet

The instructors were law enforcement officers and marksmanship instructors for the local sherriff's department. They were no nonsense kinda guys when it came to safety and following instructions. The good part of the class was you got the benefit of thier experience and knowledge in the laws for use of force including deadly force. They were able to make clear the written law and the practical application of it out on the street.
 
This is a very interesting thread, but I must reserver judgment.

Firstly there is always two sides to every story, we have been told one.

Secondly

v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Click to expand...

Why? Did you fail to archive an 80% pass in the written portion? or did you fail to qualify in the practical portion? This would be the only two reasons I am aware of that would restrict you from receiving your certificate.

Speaking as a qualified NRA instructor myself, I can say that there are good instructors and bad ones. The NRA provides a criteria / outline for what some states calls out as a minimum requirement to apply for your CHL. NRA instructors are required to follow these guild lines. But that's not to say that their own personal experiences/preference doesn't some time get integrated. Unfortunately you would be hard push to find an independent CHL class (TDI in Ohio for example) that won't cost you 3, 4 even 5 times that amount that would qualify you for a CHL. I am not saying you get what you pay for, but be realistic, the NRA tries to provide as many people the opportunity to obtain their CHL without having to go through a lot of hoops or expense. That's not to say that anyone should be subjected to danger or any other irresponsible actions.

You stated that the NRA is Pro-Gun control and that's why you will never join, but will not elaborate on this in the thread.

OK, I will respect that. But without the NRA, do you really think you/me/any of us could enjoy such freedom? maybe, maybe not. Personal I don't want to find out.

I am sorry to hear about your experience with this particular group, and as some have already suggested, if you feel you have a legitimate claim regarding any wrong doing on the part of the instructor. You should report it to the NRA with all relevant details. NRA doesn't want anyone discrediting or misrepresenting them and I am sure would appreciate your comments.
 
Without the NRA, Gore would have probably carried WV, and we would likely be in "President" Gore's second term.

The NRA, as any organization or individual is not perfect. But, they do an awful lot of good holding politicians' feet to the fire on 2nd amendment issues.
They also provide a number of educational and instructive programs that have helped countless students over the years.

In my opinion, before condemning the NRA, you should contact them to address your concerns. If they are not receptive, then you have a legitimate beef with them. So far, all I see is your allegation that you received instruction from some sub-par instructors; something that NRA would probably like to know.
 
"Without the NRA, Gore would have probably carried WV, and we would likely be in "President" Gore's second term."

I have to say, I don't really feel BLESSED that it didn't happen...

"The NRA, as any organization or individual is not perfect."

There are alot of MORE perfect organizations than the NRA, such as GOA and JPFO, in that order. If I'm going to give money, I'm going to give it to them. They may not have the political clout, or the huge membership, or the funds that the NRA does, but I have yet to see something from either organization that I disagree with.
 
Thanks for naming those two organizations, they seem to be fighting the good fight. Unfortunately I had never heard of either of them until your post, and that is exactly the problem with them.

You said it yourself... they don't have the massive membership or political clout that the NRA has. Don't worry about giving money to the NRA, they have plenty already and the piddly $25 you would give for a membership makes no difference to the leviathan.

Every membership counts, though. This is a numbers game we are playing and an NRA membership makes it clear which side you are on. If you are a member of the GOA and JPFO you might as well get a membership in the only organization that politicians listen to. Who would that be?

Oh, yeah... the NRA!
 
If you're willing to spend the money to take the instructor's course, they'll certify you forever, no checks, no renewals, no requirements
Click to expand...
Funny, I had to renew mine every 3 years.:confused:
Firstly there is always two sides to every story, we have been told one
Click to expand...
Similiar to my sig line:
There are (at least) two sides to every story, and the truth is always somewhere in the middle
Click to expand...
 
smince - It just goes to show that great minds think alike.

v8fbird - you still haven't answered the question.

v8fbird - I'd end up dumping $100 and not coming out with my certificate.
Click to expand...

Why? Did you fail to archive an 80% pass in the written portion? or did you fail to qualify in the practical portion? This would be the only two reasons I am aware of that would restrict you from receiving your certificate.
Click to expand...

Maybe the missing portion to the rest of this story.
 
"Without the NRA, Gore would have probably carried WV, and we would likely be in "President" Gore's second term."

I have to say, I don't really feel BLESSED that it didn't happen"

So...the NRA is too much in favor of gun control, but Al Gore isn't? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.


"There are alot of MORE perfect organizations than the NRA"

Actually, there is no degree of perfection; perfection is an absolute.

I think, for whatever reason, you just have an ax to grind with the NRA.
That is your prerogative, but it sounds illogical. I am and have been a member for more years than I care to remember. I don't always agree with
them on every issue...I don't agree with anyone on every issue.

Be glad you have the opportunity to enjoy exercising your right to carry.
I live in Maryland, and carry permits are doled out to only the privileged or well connected.
 
AAShooter:
There have been 6 "personal protection outside the home" classes held at NRA HQ to date. They are thinking about holding a 7th. The lesson plan will be released as soon as all revisions are complete. Once the lesson plan has been released, the people who have attended the training classes at HQ will start teaching it.

v8fbird:
Document your experience with the NRA instructors and call the training department. I am quite sure they will find out what happened.

Randy
 
I agree that you can't hold an organization responsible for what their instructors say.
Click to expand...
I disagree. The NRA can and should most certainly be held responsible for what their instructors say, while instructing an NRA-approved course. Now, what may have happened is a local course was offered and the status of the instructors being NRA-certified was touted in advertising for the class. That doesn't mean the class was an approved curriculum by the NRA. I don't have a crystal ball, 'just a thought on how this could happen.

The most amazing thing I read in this thread so far is:
Thanks for naming those two organizations, they seem to be fighting the good fight. Unfortunately I had never heard of either of them until your post, and that is exactly the problem with them.
Click to expand...
This was in reference to GOA and JPFO. I am speechless at this. The only two nationwide alternatives to the NRA.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top