Forgot to post my thought on Columbine. It was a dramatic situation and did cause a lot of changes. Most seem to have been more political knee jerk reactions.then tactical or preventative responses. My 6 yo daughter did learn what they call bad guy drills along with fire and tornado drills. I was happy about that. We have school resource officers here but they are required to remove their duty belt and secure it in the trunk of their car. I think thats a retarded response, the defense of it Ive heard was a kid mihht get the officers weapon away. Thats always a risk that has been recognized and addressed when regarding grown adults. Safety holsters, Lindell training, sound familiar? I think restricting the proven and department approvex equipment %ssued to/available to leo's in that situation is insane. The principal I discussed it with, in a friendly and easy conversation, agreed totally.
Ten historic shoot outs on Discovery tonight.
- Thread starter g.willikers
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
Actually, not much at all.
For MANY years modern shotshells were talked about being loaded in "dram equivalents."
That means that the velocity/power of this shell, when loaded with smokeless powder, matches that of an old timey shell loaded with X drams of black powder.
It's only in the past 10 to 20 years that most manufacturers have stopped putting the dram equivalenency on the packaging.
You'd see things like 2 3/4, 7 1/2, 2 3/4, meaning a 2.75 inch shell, 7 and 1/2 shot, and a smokeless loading equivalent to 2.75 drams of black powder.
Of course, modern shotshells have gotten more powerful as the longer shells have been introduced, the 3" and later 3.5" 12 gauges come to mind.
Doc Holiday's 10 gauge was probably 12 to 15 pellets of buckshot and loaded with 4 to 4.5 drams of black powder (about 100 to 120 grains of black powder).
For MANY years modern shotshells were talked about being loaded in "dram equivalents."
That means that the velocity/power of this shell, when loaded with smokeless powder, matches that of an old timey shell loaded with X drams of black powder.
It's only in the past 10 to 20 years that most manufacturers have stopped putting the dram equivalenency on the packaging.
You'd see things like 2 3/4, 7 1/2, 2 3/4, meaning a 2.75 inch shell, 7 and 1/2 shot, and a smokeless loading equivalent to 2.75 drams of black powder.
Of course, modern shotshells have gotten more powerful as the longer shells have been introduced, the 3" and later 3.5" 12 gauges come to mind.
Doc Holiday's 10 gauge was probably 12 to 15 pellets of buckshot and loaded with 4 to 4.5 drams of black powder (about 100 to 120 grains of black powder).
Mike Irwin
Staff
OK, I'm going to merge this thread in with the ongoing thread in Tactics and Training. It's pretty active and this thread will supplement it nicely.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I do find the Sons of Guns guy to be way over the top... but what is the beef with them? It appears as if everybody here absolutely hates them."
A good part of it is that I want this kind of show to be delivered in a rather matter-of-fact manner without a lot of really baseless speculation and a decided lack of huge, glaring, historic and technical errors.
And I'm sorry, the two shows that provided the hosts are just full of huge, glaring, historic and technica errors and are delivered as Gen X Mind Candy bereft of any sort of significant value.
Those guys are part of the "Valley Girl Reality Show" movement. Brainless and daft but hey, they cut a nice profile.
A good part of it is that I want this kind of show to be delivered in a rather matter-of-fact manner without a lot of really baseless speculation and a decided lack of huge, glaring, historic and technical errors.
And I'm sorry, the two shows that provided the hosts are just full of huge, glaring, historic and technica errors and are delivered as Gen X Mind Candy bereft of any sort of significant value.
Those guys are part of the "Valley Girl Reality Show" movement. Brainless and daft but hey, they cut a nice profile.
MightyAchilles
New member
I have only seen one episode of American Guns and it was ridiculous to say the least. Re-finished a 1911 in silver and threw about 10g's worth of diamonds all over the grip and sights. I can certainly see what you mean about "valley-girl" with all of that thrown on a very nice pistol..... The daughter was pretty cute though.
MightyAchilles
New member
Yea definitely. Compared to some of the crap(My fair Wedding... Real housewives...blah blah blah) that my lady watches it is pure fun.
I live in KC, my gf lives and is from Independence, and Ive.never heard of an attempt on Pres. Truman
MoBart,
See http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0F6D5YB15VG45C7X9W4J
American Gunfight: The Plot to Kill President Truman--and the Shoot-out That Stopped It, by Stephen Hunter and John Bainbridge Jr.
MoBart,
See http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0F6D5YB15VG45C7X9W4J
American Gunfight: The Plot to Kill President Truman--and the Shoot-out That Stopped It, by Stephen Hunter and John Bainbridge Jr.
Il check that out thank you. Im pretty impressed with anything Steven Hunter attaches himself to.
Let me make a couple points about the tv showsbwe are discussing. Yes, they make mistakes, bad ones. But, they are entertaining people, and they are attacting people to the firearms world, or at least makeing our passion more acceptable and accesable to a wider audiance. People make mistakes about.details, Ive seen it in countless guj shops and.god.help us walmart and kmart gun counters. Hell,.I had a.drill instructor ojce, a.Marine Staff Seargent,.who I asked the bullet and.poweder weights of the 5.56 round. His anwser? Its a gas operated weapon, not gun powder. Followed by me doing a lot of sweating lol. Ignore the goofy parts or the whol show, but cut them some slack, they mihht be good for us in the end. And yes, the daugjters are both cute lol
Let me make a couple points about the tv showsbwe are discussing. Yes, they make mistakes, bad ones. But, they are entertaining people, and they are attacting people to the firearms world, or at least makeing our passion more acceptable and accesable to a wider audiance. People make mistakes about.details, Ive seen it in countless guj shops and.god.help us walmart and kmart gun counters. Hell,.I had a.drill instructor ojce, a.Marine Staff Seargent,.who I asked the bullet and.poweder weights of the 5.56 round. His anwser? Its a gas operated weapon, not gun powder. Followed by me doing a lot of sweating lol. Ignore the goofy parts or the whol show, but cut them some slack, they mihht be good for us in the end. And yes, the daugjters are both cute lol
The Truman assasignation attempt was...
1949/1950, during the renovation of the White House and the Trumans, were occupying the Blair house across the street.
The attackers were on a Puerto Rican terrorists that did a frontal attack and killed three Secret Service agents and wounded five(?) others.
The Trumans were not in residence at that time.
WJC pardoned the last remaining terrorists (2) before leaving the White House, not informing the S.S. until the last minute and over their objections.
A year later, the same group attacked the House of Representative during session from the Gallery, and wounded several Representatives and killed(?) some Capitol Police.
There are in the ceiling the bullet holes from that attack.
1949/1950, during the renovation of the White House and the Trumans, were occupying the Blair house across the street.
The attackers were on a Puerto Rican terrorists that did a frontal attack and killed three Secret Service agents and wounded five(?) others.
The Trumans were not in residence at that time.
WJC pardoned the last remaining terrorists (2) before leaving the White House, not informing the S.S. until the last minute and over their objections.
A year later, the same group attacked the House of Representative during session from the Gallery, and wounded several Representatives and killed(?) some Capitol Police.
There are in the ceiling the bullet holes from that attack.
Have not had the chance to see the show yet...
I have to agree with Kraigway. As a police officer the most influential gunfight (one way as it was) was "The Onionfield". I'd read the book, and seen the movie. At the time I was a pretty active cop. Every current Officer should see this movie if not read the book.
While the FBI shootout and L/A bank robbery are landmarks... these situation's have presented before. The FBI shootout at little bohemia, and the triangle sports shootout in NY are just two examples.
Based on the conversation in this thread... It seems the show is a politically correct popular history view of well studied shootings. IMO comparing war to a shootout is like saying a bathtub is just a very small ocean.
I have to agree with Kraigway. As a police officer the most influential gunfight (one way as it was) was "The Onionfield". I'd read the book, and seen the movie. At the time I was a pretty active cop. Every current Officer should see this movie if not read the book.
While the FBI shootout and L/A bank robbery are landmarks... these situation's have presented before. The FBI shootout at little bohemia, and the triangle sports shootout in NY are just two examples.
Based on the conversation in this thread... It seems the show is a politically correct popular history view of well studied shootings. IMO comparing war to a shootout is like saying a bathtub is just a very small ocean.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
Click on the pres you wish info on and it will open a new page. his attempted assasanation is towards the bottom. Great page to learn everything about each pres.
Click on the pres you wish info on and it will open a new page. his attempted assasanation is towards the bottom. Great page to learn everything about each pres.
I watched the program. I am not impressed with WILL of SONS A GUNS. He is like someone said "OVER THE TOP" a little. I however was impressed with the guns.The machine pistol conversion that I had never heard of before. I was instrested in what the BAR could do.I would have never thought the FBI would have been "out guned" by the likes of BONNIE AND CLYDE.
I really enjoyed the actual content of the show,but not the theatrics.
I really enjoyed the actual content of the show,but not the theatrics.
Pbearperry
New member
How can you call it a shootout when only one side has guns?Yes,the Valentines Day massacre is history,but I really can't call it a shootout.
Stevie-Ray
New member
I thought it was worthwhile, even though I dislike Hayden and tolerate Wyatt.