Tell me about the 5.7 rd...please

[Stevie-Ray]

As for the cost it's comparable with a middle of the road 1911, (para, springfield, etc) I don't quite get the griping here, and the ammo can get down to $18.50 a box in bulk (sometimes lower) which is the only way to buy ammo these days anyway.

I'll take this, since it was me that was doing the griping. The last one I saw, which was at last weekend's gun show was priced at $979. I own 3 1911s and didn't pay that much for any of them. Far as I'm concerned, it's a $500 gun, about the same as a Glock. I wouldn't even know that if I wasn't interested, but they're going to have to lower that price a bunch to get me to bite. The PS90, OTOH, is simply priced astronomically. I don't even bother looking at those.

 

[DmL5]

Weight:

Weight of Glock 19, 20.99 oz

Weight of Fiveseven Pistol: 20.8 oz

Comparing the empty weight measurements for the two pistols is pointless because they won't be used empty. Read my post. I said that a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol.

A Glock 19 weighs 23.45 oz (1.5 lb) with an empty magazine inside the pistol. A Five-seveN weighs 25.6 oz (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine inside the pistol. So yes, a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs about the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol. When both guns are loaded, the Five-seveN is about 25% lighter than the Glock 19; this is in spite of the fact that the Five-seveN also has 30% more ammunition in the magazine. On top of that, a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine.

The flatter trajectory could be benificial in some scenarios, and the lower recoil is obviously beneficial for follow-up shots. Porting creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

I have never seen a reliable video of the Fiveseven going through any type of body armor

www.youtube.com

Now you have. There are dozens of videos on Youtube documenting body armor tests with the Five-seveN, using either EA or FN's factory ammunition types.

 

[NateLeit]

I'll take this, since it was me that was doing the griping. The last one I saw, which was at last weekend's gun show was priced at $979. I own 3 1911s and didn't pay that much for any of them. Far as I'm concerned, it's a $500 gun, about the same as a Glock.

This is a problem. Two weeks ago I attended a gun show and noticed a Fiveseven pistol priced at $1200. Why compare it to Glock when it's triple price? Lower the price a good $700 clams and then talk to me again. :barf:

 

[NateLeit]

Comparing the empty weight measurements for the two pistols is pointless because they won't be used empty.

Comparing two squirtgun weighted weapons is pointless.

The flatter trajectory could be benificial in some scenarios.

"Bad guy, give me some time to set my hook rest up and get my scope mounted so I can take advantage of my new pistol."

the lower recoil is obviously beneficial for follow-up shots. Porting creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

Porting is an excellent route for those who find a standard 9mm pistol to be a hard kicker, I personally never have.

 

[DmL5]

Comparing two squirtgun weighted weapons is pointless.

A comparison shows that the Five-seveN pistol is advantaged in virtually all aspects; not just weight. Again, a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition. Meanwhile, a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol. The Five-seveN also has a higher magazine capacity, shoots flatter, recoils less, and with EA's ammunition has the ability to penetrate virtually any type of body armor.

"Bad guy, give me some time to set my hook rest up and get my scope mounted so I can take advantage of my new pistol."

Porting is an excellent route for those who find a standard 9mm pistol to be a hard kicker, I personally never have.

A scope is not needed to utilize a flatter trajectory, and porting a pistol, again, only creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

 

[NateLeit]

A comparison shows that the Five-seveN pistol is advantaged in virtually all aspects; not just weight.

A very biased comparison done by you.

Again, a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

An average citizen is not going to be concealing a Fiveseven pistol with Magazine extensions for EDC (every day cary).

http://media.photobucket.com/image/Five Seven 30 round/airman_57/fn_five-seven.jpg

For most LEO and Special response teams the slightly added weight of a Glock 19 standard magazine or magazine extension is not even worth considering. Maybe that is why Glock is still the mainstream weapon of choice for LEO and forces around the world.

A scope is not needed to utilize a flatter trajectory, and porting a pistol, again, only creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

A steady marksman with a Glock will greatly out perform a novice with a Fiveseven pistol, at the range with which pistols are utilized.
The shooter, not the gun, would be responsible for innacuracy in handguns.

Porting is an excellent way to achieve lower recoil if the need is percieved. With a cartridge such as 9mm I have never percieved this need.

Fiveseven remains a nice choice of weapon, but any information and posts that I have read about the pistol vs competition (HK, Glock, Sig, Kimber, Beretta) are one sided and biased, either in it's favor or in it's disfavor.

 

[DmL5]

A very biased comparison done by you.

No bias to it, because I didn't include a shred of opinion anywhere in the comparison.

- It is a fact that a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

- It is a fact that a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol.

- It is a fact that the Five-seveN also has a higher flush-fit magazine capacity.

- It is a fact that the Five-seveN shoots much flatter.

- It is a fact that the Five-seveN recoils 30% less.

- It is a fact that with EA's civilian ammunition the Five-seveN has the ability to penetrate virtually any type of body armor.

An average citizen is not going to be concealing a Fiveseven pistol with Magazine extensions for EDC (every day cary).

Read my post. I mentioned the extended 30-round magazine being carried as a spare magazine, not as the first magazine in the pistol.

For most LEO and Special response teams the slightly added weight of a Glock 19 standard magazine or magazine extension is not even worth considering.

The reduced weight is still advantageous, just like virtually every other aspect of the weapon's design.

Maybe that is why Glock is still the mainstream LEO weapon of choice.

No. The Glock pistol was introduced 30 years ago, chambered in numerous calibers; the first of which (9mm) was introduced over 100 years ago. The Five-seveN uses a specially-designed caliber, and was introduced only 10 years ago; it's already in use in over 40 countries, and with hundreds of law enforcement agencies in the United States alone.

A steady marksman with a Glock will greatly out perform a novice with a Fiveseven pistol

This statement is meaningless. A "steady marksman" with a Five-seveN will outshoot either because of the flatter trajectory and lower recoil.

Porting is an excellent way to achieve lower recoil if the need is percieved.

Repeating the same misinformation over and over doesn't make it true. Porting a pistol, again, only creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

 

[NateLeit]

No bias to it, because I didn't include a shred of opinion anywhere in the comparison.

- It is a fact that a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

- It is a fact that a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol.

- It is a fact that the Five-seveN also has a higher flush-fit magazine capacity.

- It is a fact that the Five-seveN shoots much flatter.

- It is a fact that the Five-seveN recoils 30% less.

- It is a fact that with EA's civilian ammunition the Five-seveN has the ability to penetrate virtually any type of body armor.

The reduced weight is still advantageous, just like virtually every other aspect of the weapon's design.

No. The Glock pistol was introduced 30 years ago, chambered in numerous calibers; the first of which (9mm) was introduced over 100 years ago. The Five-seveN uses a specially-designed caliber, and was introduced only 10 years ago; it's already in use in over 40 countries, and with hundreds of law enforcement agencies in the United States alone.

Nonsense, the advantages in favor that the 5.7x28 is superior to all and it's nescessity to replace existing pistols chambered in different calibers and platforms largley include afew ounces of weight and less recoil than the monster kicking 9mm round. Also a flatter trajectory for handgun sniping.

Irrelevant. A "steady marksman" with a Five-seveN will outshoot either because of the flatter trajectory and lower recoil.

A steady marksman with a Glock and Fiveseven would be comparable as pistol accuracy would not be determined by the gun being used in the shootout, in the close ranges with which pistols are used.

Repeating the same misinformation over and over doesn't make it true.

Repeating biased opinions about a superpower handgun, that pertain to largely irrelevant advantages does not make the gun the superior choice to mainstream calibers and platforms. In some situations 5.7x28 would certianly have an upperhand, however, it will never replace mainstream calibers.
Maybe this is why FN is still releasing new platforms in 9mm, 40 cal and 45?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4582601606_a26ff1ccaa.jpg

I've had one of them in 9mm, a nice little gun.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion about this.. "ultimate weapon", which is just that, your opinion.

 

[DmL5]

Repeating biased opinions about a superpower handgun

However you are entitled to your opinion, which is just that, opinion.

You can run circles forever, but there is no opinion to it. Here we go again:

- It is a fact (not opinion) that a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that the Five-seveN also has a higher flush-fit magazine capacity.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that the Five-seveN shoots much flatter.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that the Five-seveN recoils 30% less.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that with EA's civilian ammunition the Five-seveN has the ability to penetrate virtually any type of body armor.

pistol accuracy would not be determined by the gun being used in the shootout

Assuming both shooters are skilled, yes it would. This statement is laughable.

Maybe this is why FN is still releasing new platforms in 9mm, 40 cal and 45?

No. FN is producing pistols in those calibers because they are old calibers that already have a foothold with shooters.

largely irrelevant advantages

Reduced weight, reduced recoil, increased magazine capacity, and body armor penetration are all extremely important advantages. If you can't understand that, then you're hopeless.

 

[EnoughGUN]

5.7

I agree the pistol is expensive but then again if you can't afford it don't buy it.
People keep saying it is expensive to shoot and the ammunition is hard to find. I don't know where you all live but I get it for about $17 a box a case at a time and there is piles of it at most gun stores and shows.
$17 or even $20 for 50 high velocity JHP rounds seems pretty good to me. Maybe people are thrown off by the box being small and feel they are paying for less because the bullets are smaller?

 

[NateLeit]

You can run circles forever, but there is no opinion to it. Here we go again:

- It is a fact (not opinion) that a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that a Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that the Five-seveN also has a higher flush-fit magazine capacity.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that the Five-seveN shoots much flatter.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that the Five-seveN recoils 30% less.

- It is a fact (not opinion) that with EA's civilian ammunition the Five-seveN has the ability to penetrate virtually any type of body armor.

It is your opinion that the benefits such as .1 ounce weight or flatter trajectory that would not be utilized are nescessary or offer something worthy of replacement over the conventional, you can keep running circles all you want, this is why Glock among others remain the widestream weapon of choice.

Assuming both shooters are skilled, yes it would. This statement is laughable.

This statement is laughable, accuracy is on the part of the shooter with a handgun, particularly at the ranges in which handgun shootings take place. :barf:

No. FN is producing pistols in those calibers because they are old calibers that already have a foothold with shooters.

And they have the foothold for a good reason. If FiveSeven weapons system was the superior platform in all ways from a nonbiased standpoint FN wouldn't keep producing Glock-like copys for the mainstream that doesn't want Fiveseven.

 

[DmL5]

It is your opinion that the benefits such as .1 ounce weight or flatter trajectory

Reduced weight, reduced recoil, increased magazine capacity, and body armor penetration are all important advantages. Again, if you can't understand that, then you're hopeless.

.1 ounce weight

No. When both guns are loaded, the Five-seveN is roughly half a pound (25%) lighter than the Glock 19, even though it's carrying 30% more ammunition in the magazine. A spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

this is why Glock among others remain the widestream weapon of choice

"Widestream" is not a word.

Like I said, the Glock pistol was introduced 30 years ago, and it is chambered in numerous calibers; the first of which (9mm) was introduced over 100 years ago. The Five-seveN uses a specially-designed caliber, and was introduced only 10 years ago; it's already in use in over 40 countries, and with hundreds of law enforcement agencies in the United States alone.

accuracy is on the part of the shooter

Again, assuming two skilled shooters using different calibers, no it's not.

If FiveSeven weapons system was the superior platform in all ways from a nonbiased standpoint FN wouldn't keep producing Glock-like copys.

What a twisted attempt at logic this is. Actually, FN would continue to offer pistols chambered in older mainstream calibers, because those calibers have been around for 100 years and they are mainstream.

 

[osallent]

So much hate for the 5.7x28 in this thread

I have nothing against it. The amount of ammo you can carry in one magazine is amazing to say the least. The only reason, however, that I would not carry one is because one more caliber is too much. With .380, 9mm, .40 and .45, there is no reason to add the 5.7x28. It is also quite expensive to shoot.

However, as your only SD gun, it's a neat little thing. My only concern is that the price of the ammo. Practice is key with any handgun caliber. No matter what you carry in a pistol, shot placement is key. The price of this ammo might deter someone from practicing a lot with it, which is a very bad thing. :barf:

 

[NateLeit]

Reduced weight, reduced recoil, increased magazine capacity, and body armor penetration are all important advantages. Again, if you can't understand that, then you're hopeless.

Reduced weight - .1 ounces over fullsize Glock 19, reduced recoil - a small percentage over a 9mm (I've never felt that it was a hard kicker but could be ported if needed), 3 rnds extra magazine capacity due to a more awkward grip. The only real advantage here is armor penetration, which is why I said that 5.7x28 is potentially a useful weapon, not an overall replacement.

No. When both guns are loaded, the Five-seveN is roughly half a pound (25%) lighter than the Glock 19, even though it's carrying 30% more ammunition in the magazine. A spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it holds nearly twice as much ammunition.

Glock19:
LENGTH
174 mm / 6.85 in.
HEIGHT
127 mm / 5.00 in.

Fiveseven
LENGTH
208 mm (8.2 in)
Height 145 mm (5.7 in)

We could compare Fiveseven compact with Glock compact but those aren't in existence. I guess mainstream would prefer to CCW an 8.2 in pistol with magazine extensions rather than take that extra .1 ounce or -3 rnds.

Glock 26 compact
LENGTH
6.29"
HEIGHT INCLUDING MAGAZINE
4.17"

"Widestream" is not a word

You had better go that route.

Again, assuming two skilled shooters using different calibers, no it's not.

At the 30 yard range that handguns are typically used at and among two shooters of equal skill the difference would be nonexistant.
You make a good shot or you do not, the pistol does make a shot for you in the CQB range they are intended for.

What a twisted attempt at logic this is. Actually, FN would continue to offer pistols chambered in older mainstream calibers, because those calibers have been around for 100 years and they are mainstream.

Correct, 9mm, 40 and 45 Glock have continued to be the mainstream inspite of the release of the P90 in 5.7x28 about 23 years ago and the FiveSeveN about 13 years ago.
Glock was designed in 1982 so afew years before 5.7x28 was invented.

The Fiveseven remains a viable option, among many others.

 

[DmL5]

Reduced weight - .1 ounces over fullsize Glock 19

The Glock 19 is not a full-size pistol, and more importantly, the weight difference between the two pistols is much more than .1 ounces. Repeating the same lie over and over won't make it true.

Here are the figures again, since you failed to take note of them the first several times they were posted. A Glock 19 weighs 23.45 oz (1.5 lb) with an empty magazine inside the pistol. A Five-seveN weighs 25.6 oz (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine inside the pistol.

A Five-seveN pistol loaded with 20 rounds weighs about the same as an empty Glock 17 or Glock 19 pistol. When both guns are loaded, the Five-seveN is about half a pound (25%) lighter than the Glock 19; this is in spite of the fact that the Five-seveN also has 30% more ammunition in the magazine. On top of that, a spare 30-round Five-seveN magazine can be carried for less weight than a spare 17-round Glock magazine, even though it carries about twice as much ammunition.

reduced recoil - a small percentage over a 9mm

The recoil is reduced by 30%. That is not a small percentage.

I've never felt that it was a hard kicker but could be ported if needed

The 9mm is not a "hard kicker," it's less accurate in follow-up shots. Porting a pistol only creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

Glock19:
LENGTH
174 mm / 6.85 in.
HEIGHT
127 mm / 5.00 in.

Irrelevant, because the Glock 19 is not designed to be a full-size pistol; neither is the Glock 26. The Glock 19 is listed as a compact and the Glock 26 is listed as a subcompact. The Glock 17 (or Beretta 92, etc) is a full-size pistol more directly comparable to the Five-seveN; and a comparison between them shows the Five-seveN to be superior (to either) in all of the same aspects that were listed earlier. In fact, the Five-seveN is also shorter than a Beretta 92.

among two shooters of equal skill the difference would be nonexistant.

The difference would be one shooter experiencing 30% less recoil, improving his accuracy on followup shots, and a flatter trajectory, facilitating his shooting at longer range.

9mm, 40 and 45 Glock have continued to be the mainstream inspite of the release of the P90 in 5.7x28 about 23 years ago

Clue: the FN P90 is not a handgun.

Glock was designed in 1982 so afew years before 5.7x28 was invented.

The Five-seveN pistol was introduced in 1998. Meanwhile, the Glock pistol was introduced 30 years ago and it is chambered in numerous calibers; the first of which (9mm) was introduced about 110 years ago. The Five-seveN (and 5.7x28mm) are much younger designs and they're already in use in over 40 countries, and with hundreds of law enforcement agencies in the United States alone.

 

[tipoc]

and with hundreds of law enforcement agencies in the United States alone.

Hundreds? I had not heard that. In what capacity is the gun used by these agencies? I had not heard that it is a standard issue sidearm of hundreds of police departments in the U.S. Is this the case? Did they replace the 9mm and/or the 40 S&W for the 5.7x28 and the FN?

tipoc

 

[DmL5]

Hundreds? I had not heard that. In what capacity is the gun used by these agencies? I had not heard that it is a standard issue sidearm of hundreds of police departments in the U.S. Is this the case? Did they replace the 9mm and/or the 40 S&W for the 5.7x28 and the FN?

tipoc

According to FN's 2010 military product catalog, the Five-seveN is used by over 300 law enforcement agencies in the country (in varying capacities, of course). Two well-known examples are the Duluth, GA police department (issued to police supervisors) and the Passaic County, NJ sheriff's department (carried by several SWAT members). Sources:

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20.../wednesday/gwinnett_d3c6768a824c529800ad.html

http://www.fnhusa1.com/PDF/reviews/0805fiveseventacticalweapons.pdf

 

[NateLeit]

According to FN's 2010 military product catalog, the Five-seveN is used by over 300 law enforcement agencies in the country (in varying capacities, of course). Two well-known examples are the Duluth, GA police department (issued to police supervisors) and the Passaic County, NJ sheriff's department (carried by several SWAT members). Sources:

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/200...c529800ad.html

http://www.fnhusa1.com/PDF/reviews/0...calweapons.pdf

Glock's states their pistols are "...in use in over 65% of law enforcement agencies." The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation issues all agents graduating from the FBI Academy a Glock 22 or Glock 23 according to the agent's preference.

 

[NateLeit]

The Glock 19 is not a full-size pistol, and more importantly, the weight difference between the two pistols is much more than .1 ounces. Repeating the same lie over and over won't make it true.

Weight of Glock 19 pistol, 20.99 oz

Weight of Fiveseven Pistol: 20.8 oz

I guess we'll be stuffing alot of 5.7x28 magazine extensions in our pockets.

Here are the figures again, since you failed to take note of them the first several times they were posted. A Glock 19 weighs 23.45 oz (1.5 lb) with an empty magazine inside the pistol. A Five-seveN weighs 25.6 oz (1.6 lb) with a loaded 20-round magazine inside the pistol.

That .1 lb will make a bigger difference than the several inches gained in dimensions? As well as $1200 dollar price tag?

The recoil is reduced by 30%. That is not a small percentage.

Quite achievable with porting or a muzzlebreak, however, most agencies find the 9mm quite tameable in recoil.

http://www.apwcogan.com/greetings.html

Accurate Plating has been doing custom work, porting and especially refinishing for many major manufacturers including FN.
Quite frankly, I'd recommend them.
Your claim that Fiveseven is about 30% less recoil came from FN, my claim of 9mm having 1/2 muzzle rise also comes from a business promoting it's good work.

The 9mm is not a "hard kicker," it's less accurate in follow-up shots. Porting a pistol only creates new problems that outweigh a tiny reduction in recoil.

Depending what is done with the firearm porting is commonly agreed to reduce muzzle rize in 9mm by about half, roughly 50%.

The difference would be one shooter experiencing 30% less recoil, improving his accuracy on followup shots, and a flatter trajectory, facilitating his shooting at longer range.

Muzzlebreak for about 50% less recoil improving accuracy and follow up shots.

 

[DmL5]

Glock's website states their pistols are "...in use in 65% of law enforcement agencies." The U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation issues all agents graduating from the FBI Academy a Glock 22 or Glock 23 according to the agent's preference.

And I already addressed that several times.

The Glock pistol was introduced 30 years ago, and it is chambered in a number of calibers; the foremost of which (9mm) was introduced about 110 years ago.